Okay I will now qualify my statement. Benz has made some classic innovations in interface that at the time were far superior to the competition. The seat-shape control on the doors was intuitive - far better than the switches on the sides of American seats. The cruise control stalk was a master of simplicity and function.
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Happy Birthday AP 2.0
- Thread starter lunitiks
- Start date
Summon works for me almost 100% of the time - perhaps you are ham fisted and don't know how to aim your car in the general direction of your garage before using the feature? I could help tutor you.
jimmy_d
Deep Learning Dork
I know what you mean. People that just keep posting the same image over and over and over...
The repetition is not what my problem is with, though. It is with the obviously unfair suggestion that Audi meant to promote poor parking or that the car is poor at parking. That's just silly.
That said, some might consider it unfair to suggest Tesla actually meant any of the following either! Maybe these two issues are linked!
Works for me better than 50% but not close enough to 100% to make it useful. My garage door is fairly narrow -- I've got about 7-8 inches to spare (3-4" on either side) with the windows folded in. I also have a retaining wall on either side of the narrow driveway, and the garage itself is narrow (1-car). If it's not pretty well lined up to begin with, there's no chance. But even if it is lined up nice and straight, some significant fraction of the time it will freak out and turn itself crooked for no good reason. Once it's even slightly crooked it cannot recover. (I'd estimate this happens 10-20% of the time. I think the feature starts to get useful if it fails <5% of the time; any more than that and it's not worth standing around with your neighbors staring at you fiddling with the thing.)
The problem is that using the ultrasonics it has, this is a very hard problem. It has blind spots directly to the sides, and not enough resolution to clearly perceive the opening, particularly after it's started to go trough the door and the garage door sill is between two sensors. (Remember, ultrasonic sensors give you just a range, not a direction. You don't get a coordinate in 3D space; you get a semi-spherical surface centered on the sensor.) I think that maybe a very sophisticated software approach could work here with only the ultrasonic sensors; it would need to build itself a 3D map based on building up ultrasonic returns over time as it proceeds and (roughly speaking) taking the intersection of these spheres (but not that simple as there is always uncertainty). As it is currently, it seems to forget that the door sill is there once it's passed the sensors.
I have some hope that they will eventually start using the cameras to help with summon. They could use a structure-from-motion algorithm to build up a 3D map of the environment. If they remember this map not just for the current parking maneuver but also remember it for next time so it's not starting from scratch, they might be able to do something reasonable. (In particular, if you've just parked in a tight garage, you'd want to remember the map you built up when you parked to have something to start with -- you only get structure from motion after you start moving...)
I see absolutely zero evidence that they have even begun to implement such a sophisticated approach -- despite the fact that what I just described is not some fantastic new innovation requiring breakthroughs to implement. Just google "structure from motion" and you'll find tutorials and pre-built libraries[1]. They have plenty of compute power to do this. Tesla is just so slammed trying to get basic functionality working (and generally having too many balls in the air for such a relatively small company) that they are leaving low-hanging fruit like this to rot on the vine. Instead as has already been pointed out, they basically spent the past year trying to reproduce the MobileEye system with their own drop-in replacement. Elon obviously expected that to take about 2 months and then they'd be on to a new architecture with features like I just described that would not be feasible with the ME system.
[1] LMGTFY: Structure from motion - Wikipedia
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
Might be able to get closer to 100% if you folded your mirrors in instead. Those folded windows are sure to fail after time. Not sure that's covered under warranty.
Might be able to get closer to 100% if you folded your mirrors in instead. Those folded windows are sure to fail after time. Not sure that's covered under warranty.
Brilliant! I will try that when I get home today! I bet that fixes everything!
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
I'm still on 2017.34 and aside from having to restart a failed entry (narrow 1 car garage as well) I usually get 99.999% success. Never a problem on exit. But that .001% is a killer. Hit summon forward (or even if DBL hit park and arrow forward, makes no difference) the wheels turn sharp right, even before the car starts to move, then heads straight towards the brick wall that frames the opening. Have not figured out why as it happens so rarely.
Have you tried stopping further from the garage opening before starting summon? The ultrasonics aren't that reliable if too close. Perhaps starting back a few feet might work better? Also dirt or bug covered sensors could cause summon to fail.
Once the threshold is cleared, it's the interior walls that determine centering, assuming symmetry, the car should track straight.
There is a thread here that spoke to the sensors having too thick a paint coating. I could see that causing a problem with summon and a tight opening too. Tesla can test that with a paint thickness meter.
There is definitely a long way to go on making Tesla summon awesome and it’s one area that I really think they could shine... and one I look forward to the most, it is also an area that is most dangerous for knocking stuff over and homelink errors.... I will say my friends and family about lose their shiiiii when they go into the alley and see my car open the garage and pull in front of us....
I think the thing is, like most subjects on the thread, it is hard to have a conversation about where the improvements need to be with Tesla when some folks keep asserting that there are comparable cars out there now.... it’s all so hypothetical to me when people post soon to be released or (just released) technologies on bmw, Mercedes and Audi without acknowledging that the majority of us Tesla owners on this thread have cars that drive themselves on 50-70% of our morning commute reliably.
From Bloomberg
Elon Musk Was Wrong About Self-Driving Teslas
He’s charging $8,000 for a feature that doesn’t exist yet while owners bemoan a current version that’s flawed. This is the story of how we got here.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak: There’s ‘way too much hype' around Elon Musk’s Tesla
Elon Musk Was Wrong About Self-Driving Teslas
He’s charging $8,000 for a feature that doesn’t exist yet while owners bemoan a current version that’s flawed. This is the story of how we got here.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak: There’s ‘way too much hype' around Elon Musk’s Tesla
What a great post, this is what I mean, the garage is a hotbed of messiness ... lawnmowers, toys and weird walls and slopes.... my hope is that Tesla allows a final parked position to be saved exactly and then the task for the owner is to keep the path clear .... I’m going to try to to put masking tape for parking stripes on the garage floor to see if I can get the car to recognize a parking space, i doubt this will work but it’s worth a try
I'm still on 2017.34 and aside from having to restart a failed entry (narrow 1 car garage as well) I usually get 99.999% success. Never a problem on exit. But that .001% is a killer. Hit summon forward (or even if DBL hit park and arrow forward, makes no difference) the wheels turn sharp right, even before the car starts to move, then heads straight towards the brick wall that frames the opening. Have not figured out why as it happens so rarely.
Have you tried stopping further from the garage opening before starting summon? The ultrasonics aren't that reliable if too close. Perhaps starting back a few feet might work better? Also dirt or bug covered sensors could cause summon to fail.
Once the threshold is cleared, it's the interior walls that determine centering, assuming symmetry, the car should track straight.
There is a thread here that spoke to the sensors having too thick a paint coating. I could see that causing a problem with summon and a tight opening too. Tesla can test that with a paint thickness meter.
This article timing is good! More than anything else, I think it is going to make Elon respond and hopefully we will get more info on the state of the program.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I've always liked Woz, as a person, but besides owning a Tesla, I'm really not sure why they are interviewing him... He's not an expert in any of the things the article mentions.
I guess his connections with the late Steve Jobs and being a co-founder of Apple make him a minor celebrity. Maybe they'll interview other celebrities who own Teslas for their opinions.
I guess I agree with the sentiment of the article in that if you don't follow the directions, bad things can happen.
I guess his connections with the late Steve Jobs and being a co-founder of Apple make him a minor celebrity. Maybe they'll interview other celebrities who own Teslas for their opinions.
I guess I agree with the sentiment of the article in that if you don't follow the directions, bad things can happen.
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
If this entire AP2.0 debacle hasn't changed your opinion, I don't feel anything will. And, I know you don't drink the koolaide, so I wonder how much worse it got now after reading this....
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I remember a big deal was made of when he ditched his Model S for a Bolt. However, he had always been a big Prius fan. If Toyota made a Prius EV (instead of stubbornly pushing for HFCVs) Woz would be driving that instead.I've always liked Woz, as a person, but besides owning a Tesla, I'm really not sure why they are interviewing him... He's not an expert in any of the things the article mentions.
I guess his connections with the late Steve Jobs and being a co-founder of Apple make him a minor celebrity. Maybe they'll interview other celebrities who own Teslas for their opinions.
I guess I agree with the sentiment of the article in that if you don't follow the directions, bad things can happen.
Well it didn't help. Tesla: Where's my fix?If this entire AP2.0 debacle hasn't changed your opinion, I don't feel anything will. And, I know you don't drink the koolaide, so I wonder how much worse it got now after reading this....
Didn't his wife end up buying him a second Tesla and he came back? I need to google, but I could have sworn his wife surprised him with a new tesla, maybe it was an X.
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