Has Model S quality improved?

[FatherTo1]

OP, I read many of the common problems too before we bought our Model S. The common ones were leaky roof, yellowing screen, door handles, and drive unit. However, those problems were mostly with earlier model years. 2015+ cars had many of those issues resolved by redesigned door handles, option of all-glass roof, and redesigned bearings in the drive units.

Test drive an early used Model S and then test drive a 2018 or 2019 -- you will easily notice the improvements over time. The Model 3 and Model S are phenomenal cars (the Model X, not so much...we went from S to X and back to S after many test drives). Although free Supercharging was removed from Teslas own used inventory cars, you still get a renewed 4yr/50K mile or 2yr/up-to-100K-mile warranty if you buy used direct from Tesla, and the 8yr/unlimited-mile warranty is still good on the battery and drive units. We went from a reliable Lexus to the Model S and no regrets. Good luck on your search.

 

[cucubits]

I went through the exact same back and forth as you between Tesla and a German car.

I loved driving the Tesla, and I was looking at the Model 3. It seems to me that Tesla is building too many of them too quickly. This is causing some quality control problems. However, I don't think the Model S is presently as problematic, but I have not followed problems with that car closely, because it is out of my price range.

Here in Los Angeles, the number of Model 3s has increased dramatically, and that has put a burden on the service centers here. According to posts on this board, some service centers have just stopped answering their phones. That was an issue for me. I am used to Mercedes service, where you can get a next day appointment, and a car wash, every time you call. So I decided to wait for three years, and let the EV market shake out a bit.

So my advice is this: figure out what your nearest service center. Then figure out if they are swamped by Model 3s or not.

Same. I came to exactly the same conclusion, word for word.

Most likely I'll lease/buy a good ICE and re-evaluate the EV direction in a couple years. There's no rush and honestly the drive test with a new Model 3 did not impress me that much.

 

[gigawatt1010]

If you come from the old school MB quality of razor-sharp panel alignment and vault door "thud" when you close the doors - you'll have to readjust your thoughts on that.

Tesla's are unique and they managed to change the public's perception of what quality truly is. Do you want perfectly lined up panels and gaps but faced with constant maintenance and repairs on the ICE that's powering your car? Not to mention sub-par performance.

In a way, Tesla has made the car more of an appliance but injected tons of fun and adrenaline to it, courtesy of the instant torque and power that electricity brings.

I have a 2016 Model S and a 2019 Model X. Panel gaps are still not quite German tight and down to the micrometer, but have definitely improved.

All the service issues you're reading about have some validity to them, although I would also add that IMO, the satisfied owners far outweigh the cars that have issues on them - it just looks the other way around since, as others pointed out, the satisfied owners often don't post praises on the forums.

I too have experienced the longer wait times on calls, when I had to call them for something, but it's not the totality of my experience of owning an awesome car. Both my cars have FUSC and have taken them in long trips. Just completed a 7,300 mile, coast to coast trip on the Model X and it didn't cost me anything on charging, not to mention the car performed flawlessly.

I came from the world of tinkering with my own cars. My garage fridge is filled with oily fingerprint marks and I have shirts that will forever smell like 90wt oil. I was a little skeptic about owning a toaster oven for a car, but that changed my mind when I experienced owning a Tesla in 2016.

Now we're an all-electric family, outside of a Mini Cooper S Convertible that we kept around for days when I feel like rowing my own gears. Even our bikes are now electric.

 

[D.E.]

Most people have no problems with their Teslas. When someone does, he’ll post it. You might get an idea of the relative frequency of problems when they occur from the posts here but you cannot get any idea of the frequency of problems in general.

Tesla sold 350,000 cars in 2018. How many problems have you seen here?

Go to some of the other sites, the Mercedes support groups, the BMW support groups, or Chrysler. You’ll read about horrible problems. These are all complex machines. The posters, some will worry about small things, others are just happy if their car goes at all. We’re the worriers here. We post about rattles and squeaks, interactions with Tesla people, our beta software does something that immature software does. Some people worry that their interior isn’t as luxurious as they think it should be, some buy crashed and repaired Teslas then complain that Tesla doesn’t want them using the chargers. Some think the headlights should be better. Mine are fine. Some want more colors. Some worry about blue jean dye on their white seats. Occasionally there’s a bigger problem, a car stops and won’t go any more. Someone crashes their Tesla 60 MPH into the back of a stopped fire engine. They walk away and complain about the software not seeing the fire truck and stopping. Most 60 MPH crashes into fixed objects are fatal. These people walk away. The software isn’t recommended for use in town, it’s currently meant for interstate highway use and then with the driver watching and supervising what the car does, with the hands at the ready. So they use their beta software car in a way that isn’t intended, they crash, they walk away from what should be a fatal accident, then beef about the software.

Pick a problem that concerns you and maybe we can shed some light on it. But the cars, overall, are delightful, absolute joys to drive. Stop at any supercharger and when someone pulls in, ask them if they like their Tesla. That’ll give you a fairly unbiased sample.

No one can tell you if you’ll be in the 99+% that have a great experience or whether you’ll be in the <1% with a problem.

There is no car that’s perfect, every one from the factory perfect and free of problems. If there were, there’d be no need for guarantees.

So decide for yourself. But know that the problems you see here are not the experience of the vast majority of us.

 

[JayJ]

I moved to a 2013 Tesla last year after having owned 9 Porsche’s and 6 BMW’s over the years. After the nightmare of owning recent BMW’s and seeing a number of my friends and family with similar issues I won’t be buying one of those ever again. I owned some of their older cars and rarely had a problem but cars from the last ten years have been nothing but a headache.

The cost of servicing the Porsche’s has gotten ridiculous. I absolutely love my MS; servicing has not been an issue at all and no reliability problems. My car has almost 80k miles on it. I have a hard time thinking about going to an ICE car again and probably won’t.

 

[PWlakewood]

Thank you both for your feedback. I do want to get actual owners feedback both positive and negative, but I am very put off by the numerous posts about quality issues, flatbedding cars, lack of service etc.

I am coming from the world of German ICE vehicles and the quality and after purchase care is spectacular. Just getting cold feet form all the posts from other owners.

Your comments are reassuring though,

You will mainly only hear negative comments on forums because most people dont belong to or post on forums unless they have an issue.

 

[Northern Goat]

Thank you all for easing my concerns.

 

[tbone586]

We're a two Tesla family, 2015 S70 and 2014 P85. Both have been terrific cars, best I've ever owned.

Came from a late model BMW Convertible. It was fun to drive but a very complex machine (overly so, IMHO.) In the shop several times a year for various little issues. Service trips were a pain, but I considered myself lucky that it was still under warranty - given BMW hourly labor rates - and I made sure to sell it before the warranty ran out.

Given that experience and my initial fear of the "unknown" about Tesla reliability, I made sure to purchase their extended warranty when buying our first, the S70. Four years later, only issue I've had was replacement of the 12V battery - done at my house under warranty in less than an hour. I plan to cancel the extended warranty for refund, as I'm now confident in the build quality. And BTW, Tesla has recently declared annual service unnecessary on the MS, saving further time and $$.

Was so satisfied with our first Tesla purchase we picked up our second, the P85 CPO. Another great car. Like many pre-2015s, that one did need handle replacements, and prior owner had drive train updated. But as others have stated, Tesla replaces with new/improved versions, so no worries. The car has otherwise been flawless. And given OTA updates, it's essentially indistinguishable from its "younger brother". How many ICE cars do you know of that improve automatically after you buy they... from home and with no effort on the owner's part?

To those waiting to take the plunge into EVs until they're "perfected", my experience suggests that time has arrived. Don't deny yourself the fun and safety of driving a Tesla. If new prices are an issue, there are some excellent deals out there on MS CPOs with full 4-year warranties.

 

[azred]

I have had virtually zero issues with my 12/16 S and my “early” 1/18 3. When someone starts a thread like this, they need to understand dissatisfied customers are at least ten times as likely to post about their product or service. I have probably owned about 25-30 cars in my long life and none of them was as trouble free as both of my Teslas.

Both had a few fit and finish issues at delivery that were speedily resolved to my picky satisfaction. The S has had the “yellow stripe” main screen issue, which has been discussed at length in numerous threads. That’s it. Considering my 3 has a VIN of 4xxx it it is kind amazing, I think. These are really well made cars and of course it helps that electric cars are much less complex than ICE vehicles. My equally trouble free electric golf cart agrees with me.

If I was looking to buy another new Tesla my only slight concern would be the much heavier workloads at my service center than when I purchased my cars. When I bought my early 3 in 1/18, I joked with my service center that it looked like they didn’t have much to do. Not so today, of course. Fortunately, the cars are so good it hasn’t mattered yet.

 

[PDX_Magesh]

Summary: Tesla's QC is not anywhere near the established manufacturers - especially on their higher end offerings.

FWIW, this is my take: I owned one of the first Prius Plugin Hybrids, here in PDX, when it came out, since I believed (!!!) in the EV story. Luckily we leased that & I could not wait to get rid of it due to range (11 miles!!!) issues within the Beaverton area. We waited & thought of jumping on the Leaf, then the Volt & Bolt over the years, but ended up with a 2019 MS 100D a month back.

Reason why I prefaced the response is, imho quality is subjective. What I have seen on this forum or multiple others (irrespective of manufacturers), their cars now become part of their 'emotion' that transcends logic sometimes. Example: The Prius quality was bulletproof. And we 'accepted' the range limitations. Tesla is a status symbol for many, irrespective of their previous BMWs, MBs, Cadys, etc ... and they are willing to 'sacrifice' reasoning sometimes.

With my MS, its an inventory car with 316 miles. We did get a discount, but it was sold as 'new'. However, yesterday, when we took it to get it wrapped, the installer found repainting that was done on the bumper, passenger side qtr panel, trunk lids, etc. We were upset, since we 'found' this out a month later. Yes, we did our due diligence, as best as layman could, at the time of pickup. We looked for dents, dings, scratches, curb rash, cracked windows (we did find & report this), etc ... But our inexperienced eye did not see the repaint; or we did not know what/how to look for these anomalies.

I'm sure, but I have not seen it personally on the 20+ Japanese and/or German cars + a couple of Fords I have owned over these 20 years, other cars also have QC issues, but I have never seen a shoddy post factory paint job like the one I saw on my MS yesterday. I was depressed a bit, but shook it off, since @ the end of the day its a car. As you'll see above & below this thread, diff' folks react diff' for the same issue.

And regarding service centers, my interaction with them (I think there is only one SC for the whole of Oregon!!!) has been A+. They have been responsive.

To conclude: Buy the Tesla. You'll not go wrong with your purchase. But do it with a different mind set & assume you are one among the many 'testers' for Tesla. And commiserate on these forums, if you have issues - small or big - which you will have. And you'll learn, like others, this will be the 'new normal'. Whether you are driving the coolest car/space ship/etc will depend on your mental makeup. I like mine & the experience, imho, is the 'sacrifice' for these setbacks.

YMMV. Good luck on your decision.

 

[Lhshockey24]

QUALITY is great. I feel this car will hold up just fine over a couple hundred thousand miles.

FINISH is where you’ll find little paint and trim issues. Those can all be rectified by the service center right after delivery.

 

[Petrocelli]

As someone who got a Mercedes instead of a Model 3, here's my take: if a Model S were in my price range, I'd get it.

 

[Zero CO2]

you must change your thinking
your used to the problems with an ICE car there is no comparison EV has an order of magnitude less parts
hence order of magnitude less problems

 

[SO16]

I received my new S90D in Feb 2017. Initially had a small crease in leather seat. Mobile service replaced the whole seat.

Had a 12v battery warning one year in. Car still worked fine. Mobile service replaced the battery.

Now have almost 39k miles. Only did a tire rotation, new set of tires at 37k (from too many times of flooring it) and alignment. Have yet needed to visit the service center.

I do have slight yellowing on the MCU but not enough to be very noticeable. I also have a slight acceleration shudder (for which there is a fix for).

Plan on taking it in one time before my warranty expires to cover those items.

Car has been fantastic overall. If I drove my previous Camaro as hard as I drove my Model S, I’d probably need an engine replacement.

The only issue is that in Michigan, they don’t allow service centers. But I knew that going in. Fortunately mobile service is available.

 

[Big Toys]

* so many.

Again, I appreciate the comments about the quality. Just trying to get a sense of where the quality really is, as I do agree that most people only post negative comments, but there do seem to be a lot of them and I am not going to lie I have been spoiled by the Germans.

This is where Tesla's Achille's Heel fails big time. If you are spoiled by the Germans you will not ever be mistaken for a king at Tesla. After the sale, you are considered a liability, not a recurring asset. So, unless you live 3 blocks away from a service center, you may experience what many people here experience when and if you need them.

 

[Big Toys]

"Tesla's are unique and they managed to change the public's perception of what quality truly is. Do you want perfectly lined up panels and gaps but faced with constant maintenance and repairs on the ICE that's powering your car? Not to mention sub-par performance."

Sorry, this a pant***d of pablum, when a $100,000 car is so high-tech that panels properly linied up is just too yesterday, too pedestrian for just ordinary people who can afford a $100,000 car. Just....unbelievalbe, this statement. I'd like to see how many misaligned panels there are on Elon's high-tech rockets.

 

[jerry33]

This is where Tesla's Achille's Heel fails big time. If you are spoiled by the Germans you will not ever be mistaken for a king at Tesla. After the sale, you are considered a liability, not a recurring asset. So, unless you live 3 blocks away from a service center, you may experience what many people here experience when and if you need them.

This is 100% not how I've been treated over the past 6.5 years.

 

[Greengolfer]

I have owned my 2014 P85 for just shy of two years and I have put over 38,000 miles on it. Have I had a few issues? Yes! But, they were handled by a mobile service visit at my work place or a trip to my local service center. If it required a SC visit, I was always given a Tesla loaner. My SC is in Palm Springs so when I take my car in I have to go play golf while I wait, so that might skew my perspective a bit. Still, it's the best car I have ever driven. I wouldn't trade a few easily taken care of issues for the pleasure I get from driving my P85. I have taken five trips of 600 miles round trip to over 1500 miles round trip and never had any issues(plus supercharging is FREE). Talk to people who own a Tesla, if that doesn't ease your conscience, then go with a different option. IMHO, if you buy a Tesla you won't be disappointed.

 

[robg]

If you're used to German build quality / materials , you'll probably be disappointed. I check out new Teslas periodically (probably a few times a year), and, without trying, I find lots of stuff that would irritate me as an owner. This guy (I think he's Swiss) also had a German car (audi), bought a new Model s but was ultimately annoyed by the build quality issues. Check out his video below where he highlights some issues that bother him. Some people will look at this and roll their eyes, but some of us do get really annoyed by this type of stuff. If you roll your eyes, then go ahead and buy one!

 

[cucubits]

If you're used to German build quality, you'll probably be disappointed. I check out new Teslas periodically (probably a few times a year), and, without trying, I find lots of stuff that would irritate me as an owner. This guy (I think he's Swiss) also had a German car (audi), bought a new Model s but was ultimately annoyed by the build quality issues. Check out his video below where he highlights some issues that bother him. Some people will look at this and roll their eyes, but some of us do get really annoyed by this type of stuff. If you roll your eyes, then go ahead and buy one!

I've seen this guy, I watched his Audi A5 (or was it S5) video. He seems unbiased and mentions both good and bad.

I'm sad/angry because I really wanted to like Tesla. I've been on a drive test with an S and with a 3 but overall, all the missing features and questionable design choices keep me away. How can a car at this price point lack features which are standard in most new cars which cost less than a third? Why did they choose to not implement proper blind spot monitoring, how hard would have been to add rear cross traffic alerts, proper rain sensors, proper door seals, better sound proofing... and the list goes on.