Have you lost faith in Tesla?

[Sean.]

I think a possible bigger concern, now that residuals have been hammered by price cuts, is that customers not only want refunded for the FSD that hadn't been delivered, but also wanting a refund for the car itself.

'I bought this car to be a robotaxi and earn money, and it doesn't work' is a legitimate case for a refund.

No more Tesla if that happened. It would finish them as a company.

They should just come clean to the many owners who paid for FSD after the years of promises that it was coming shortly or after x, y, z major update / stack rewrite or whatever other nonsense it was at the time.

A straight refund on the option cost is enough for me. Punitive damages for the cost of the whole car is a bit over blown.

 

[Artiste]

Munro and associates are not some random bloke, they have a very successful business based on their expertise in car manufacturing, maybe you should try watching some of their videos.

I’ve got better things to do with my time than trawl through loads of videos but I have watched this one. Lots of people on YouTube and other platforms set themselves up as experts. I see no overwhelming evidence that Audi are doing this for any other reason than shortage of semi conductors.

 

[Zilla91]

Isn't that Munro guy a Tesla shareholder and cheerleader? Hardly a neutral, is he.

 

[Adopado]

Isn't that Munro guy a Tesla shareholder and cheerleader? Hardly a neutral, is he.

If you don’t know about Munro Associates and their detailed dissections and analysis of all makes of vehicle I recommend that you do some research. There is literally no other team of engineers outside of Tesla itself who know the ins and outs of the cars. They have been doing this reverse engineering on all brands for years so are in an ideal position to make comparisons.

 

[Zilla91]

If you don’t know about Munro Associates and their detailed dissections and analysis of all makes of vehicle I recommend that you do some research. There is literally no other team of engineers outside of Tesla itself who know the ins and outs of the cars. They have been doing this reverse engineering on all brands for years so are in an ideal position to make comparisons.

Sure but you completely sidestepped my question; is he or is he not a shareholder and cheerleader?

 

[CWT3LR]

Sure but you completely sidestepped my question; is he or is he not a shareholder and cheerleader?

He might be an engineer. But that gives him no more insight into WHY Audi has deleted the heat pump than my cat has.

 

[Wowbagger]

I’ve got better things to do with my time than trawl through loads of videos but I have watched this one. Lots of people on YouTube and other platforms set themselves up as experts. I see no overwhelming evidence that Audi are doing this for any other reason than shortage of semi conductors.

They are experts who have been extremely critical of Tesla at times but if you wish to remain ignorant that is your choice.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

He might be an engineer. But that gives him no more insight into WHY Audi has deleted the heat pump than my cat has.

I’ve watched his videos and to be honest the stuff he likes about cars is not what I value. He seems to be all about engineering simplicity and cheapness, how you can shave a few $ from here, use a cheaper material there. He’s an American advising the US auto industry, that’s hardly a panacea for quality from an owners perspective.

 

[connectjunkie]

He might be an engineer. But that gives him no more insight into WHY Audi has deleted the heat pump than my cat has.

Is it a guess on their part? Yes.

Is it an informed guess because they have decades of experience in working with auto manufacturers on how to build cars better, yes.

I’ve also been following them for a while - they’re bullish on Tesla, but mostly because they’re the only car manufacturer who is keeping up with the Chinese, who they are also bullish on. They don’t expect all of the current major manufacturers to survive the transition to EV as they all started to scale too late.

 

[connectjunkie]

I’ve watched his videos and to be honest the stuff he likes about cars is not what I value. He seems to be all about engineering simplicity and cheapness, how you can shave a few $ from here, use a cheaper material there. He’s an American advising the US auto industry, that’s hardly a panacea for quality from an owners perspective.

A lot of the Tesla related stuff is exactly this - how Tesla have eliminated things over time, which tells you a lot about what Tesla is focused on as they continue to scale.

Simpler to make = faster and cheaper to make = further scale

 

[Ratch]

The only reason I can see to buy a Tesla these days is the charging network, which is on borrowed time. It was the deciding factor for me.

My Y/LR is an good product - not at all great. The ride is awful (on 19’s!) the screen interface is poor, some of the features are erratic or useless - constantly obscured cameras etc no parking distance, shoddy adaptive cruise.

But Tesla’s behaviour as a company is what ensures I’d never get another. Customer service is NON-EXISTANT. Random removal of key basic features, random price drops with no gesture to recent buyers, a lying clown of a CEO.

No thanks.

 

[Artiste]

They are experts who have been extremely critical of Tesla at times but if you wish to remain ignorant that is your choice.

Ignorant? If there was any hard evidence in his video I might be convinced.

I’d rather be ignorant than gullible. Your choice.

 

[CWT3LR]

A lot of the Tesla related stuff is exactly this - how Tesla have eliminated things over time, which tells you a lot about what Tesla is focused on as they continue to scale.

Simpler to make = faster and cheaper to make = further scale
[/QUOTE]
And this is exactly the reason Tesla is doomed to fail if they pursue this strategy. They try to market their product as premium, even luxury. When in fact it is bargain basement, with fittings that suit a Fiat or unknown Chinese manufacturer, not Mercedes or BMW.

If they continue to strip out more parts in an attempt to retain their superhigh margin, mainstream buyers not fanbois will just go elsewhere to companies that provide instrument binnacles, stalks, HUDs, decent infotainment, leather etc.

 

[Adopado]

Ignorant? If there was any hard evidence in his video I might be convinced.

I’d rather be ignorant than gullible. Your choice.

Do you understand the business of Munro Associates? They analyse vehicles in extraordinary detail to determine quality and methodology of construction. They obtain new vehicles which are totally dismantled to discover every part. They subsequently provide advice to manufacturers on how they can then improve quality and safety and reduce manufacturing costs. They produce lengthy detailed reports that are available for anyone to buy so that they can take advantage of the insights and further their own businesses. To characterise informed opinions expressed by Munro as some kind of dubious YouTube spin is quite frankly ludicrous.

 

[Ratch]

You know, be a sensible car company instead of a BS factory to inflate the stock price.

This is perfection.

 

[yessuz]

Do you understand the business of Munro Associates? They analyse vehicles in extraordinary detail to determine quality and methodology of construction. They obtain new vehicles which are totally dismantled to discover every part. They subsequently provide advice to manufacturers on how they can then improve quality and safety and reduce manufacturing costs. They produce lengthy detailed reports that are available for anyone to buy so that they can take advantage of the insights and further their own businesses. To characterise informed opinions expressed by Munro as some kind of dubious YouTube spin is quite frankly ludicrous.

do you claim that Munro has better understanding on car improvements than engineers who build the same car and spend shedload of cash and money on r&d?

 

[Ratch]

do you claim that Munro has better understanding on car improvements than engineers who build the same car and spend shedload of cash and money on r&d?

I would yes as Munro know how everyone else does it.

 

[Adopado]

do you claim that Munro has better understanding on car improvements than engineers who build the same car and spend shedload of cash and money on r&d?

Munro haven't just looked at Tesla. They look at many different cars in the same detail. They have a compilation of knowledge that no single manufacturer has ... that's why these manufacturers pay Munro, so that they can improve their own capabilities based on that wider knowledge. Clearly there will be instances where there is specific in-house technology which isn't possible to reverse engineer.

 

[Zilla91]

But he's also a Tesla shareholder so he stands to profit by talking up Tesla and talking down the competition.

 

[Sean.]

But he's also a Tesla shareholder so he stands to profit by talking up Tesla and talking down the competition.

I haven’t looked into this for years, but I do recall old Sandy Munro was a big Tesla skeptic in the early days. Then he was transformed and became a HUGE advocate…I thought that was rather remarkable for one who is supposed to be neutral, calm and dispassionate about one’s profession. Who knows or cares really.