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This aligns well with the fact taht 17.40 firmware got another bosch-based radar firmware added in addition to already existing Conti radar (added in 17.22) and a bosch radar firmware that was there since forever (also older version firmware there).
Of course, there is always the third choice: They think a rear facing radar improves FSD, but isn't necessarily required for it. That would mean these newer cars get improved FSD, and the older ones are stuck with the older version.
3 forward, 2 pillars, 2 side markers.
I think this is a red herring. Let me explain. Tesla would need to develop multiple levels of FSD software. Just for a legacy fleet? That makes no sense. So they have one version of FSD that assess rear by using a camera (amazing tech!) but the M3 and all new S/Xs use the radar (in addition, perhaps but doubtful). There is always a tension: which is the primary sensor. Its easy with AP2 (there is only 1) but becomes far more difficult when some (diminishing) portion of your fleet is supposed to be FSD without the help of radar support.
@verygreen when was 17.40 released...?This aligns well with the fact taht 17.40 firmware got another bosch-based radar firmware added in addition to already existing Conti radar (added in 17.22) and a bosch radar firmware that was there since forever (also older version firmware there).
m... Cira Oct 12, 2017 judging but the build date. That said I do not have 17.38 sample so it might have been added a couple weeks earlier than that.@verygreen when was 17.40 released...?
It seems like odd placement for rear radar. This would be analogous to the FOV of front radar, where it can read speeds of distant objects in all lanes and close-up objects right behind it.
Most cars implementing forward or rear cross traffic detection use directional radar on corners. Either front, rear, or all 4 corners like you see in the Audi Q7. The 4 corner solution also allows you to get rid of the center radar in the front and that effectively gives you redundant dual forward radar plus cross-traffic visibility and oncoming traffic discrimination.
It just seems odd to put a center radar in the back. Unless your rear camera view solution is really not gonna work, or you want to implement something like rear-ending-avoidance in the short run.
Some radars are now being made so you can position it in the center of the car and still get data from multiple lanes since they angle the sensors. I'm not saying Tesla is using this for the rear radar, but here is an example of what I am talking about. Maybe they chose this route because it was cheaper/easier to implement in the 3 instead of adding 2 more radars to the corners and gave them the same/around the same performance?
The MRR rear version monitors the area next to and around the rear of the vehicle, reliably detecting vehicles in the driver’s blind spot as well as traffic approaching from behind. Two sensors, one to the left and one to the right, are concealed in the rear bumper of the vehicle. The sensors are angled outward at approximately 45 degrees and can detect objects at a distance of up to 80 meters.
Wow, great info there! We know how ambitious Tesla is with projects, especially AP I would sure hope that after the multiple stumbles with the platform that they would go with a solution they know would work. Lets hope they can pull that off!I do agree you can theoretically make patch arrays like this, particularly with beamforming, but that's not something supported by the MRR antenna per se. In particular, the MRR page describes using two sensors rather than a single multi-field sensor:
This is the typical setup for blind spot monitoring corner radars.
IIRC, the MRR Bosch sensor actually does have 2 FOV's, but in the vertical axis. One shoots a "taller" beam for overpass detection, where if the taller beam has a stronger return then it implies that the return is an overpass and not a car. But, as we all know from driving the early days of AP2, it's not exactly foolproof.
Just because it's theoretically possible according to a marketing datasheet does not mean that in practice it works out as well. So far, nobody's brought to market a cross traffic detection scheme using a single center-mounted radar. Maybe Tesla will impress us by being the first.
This aligns well with the fact taht 17.40 firmware got another bosch-based radar firmware added in addition to already existing Conti radar (added in 17.22) and a bosch radar firmware that was there since forever (also older version firmware there).
I do agree you can theoretically make patch arrays like this, particularly with beamforming, but that's not something supported by the MRR antenna per se. In particular, the MRR page describes using two sensors rather than a single multi-field sensor:
This is the typical setup for blind spot monitoring corner radars.
IIRC, the MRR Bosch sensor actually does have 2 FOV's, but in the vertical axis. One shoots a "taller" beam for overpass detection, where if the taller beam has a stronger return then it implies that the return is an overpass and not a car. But, as we all know from driving the early days of AP2, it's not exactly foolproof.
Just because it's theoretically possible according to a marketing datasheet does not mean that in practice it works out as well. So far, nobody's brought to market a cross traffic detection scheme using a single center-mounted radar. Maybe Tesla will impress us by being the first.
Well. There were two changes, the HW2.5 front radar firmware was added in early June (as we were discussing the whole hw2.5 thing) and then this other Bosch radar firmware was added in October. Now it does not really say anything about positions of the radar or such, so it's also possible they did away with the conti and now are putting a different revision of the Bosch radar in (seems somewhat unlikely). Another notable change from about that time is the park system hardware got a new revision (the ultrasonics) with hw2.5.So let me get this straight... Software changed wrt radar back in August-October 2017?
Was this change only for Model 3?
Quick question for ya: How many "3 months maybe; 6 months definitelies" before the FSD demo?
Who knows. Evidently their current attempts did not pan out to produce the results they were hoping for, so I guess they went back to the drawing board?Quick question for ya: How many "3 months maybe; 6 months definitelies" before the FSD demo?