Help! Is Tesla trying to screw me??

[Camera-Cruiser]

The loan payment on the website should have been spot on, before taxes/fees, based on down payment shown (5% by default). What some might consider misleading is the top number they show which includes estimated gas savings. On a 78 month loan, that can represent close to $9K (by default) over the 6 1/2 years but obviously is not really a lower loan payment.

Yeah, Tesla should get rid of the gas savings when showing the final price of the car. It is hugely misleading. The car is not cheaper by that amount. They might as well say that every time you get $1 discount coupon at the grocery store that your Tesla got that dollar so its cheaper. Or, if they want to be truthful, they have to at least calculate the cost of electricity for the same period that they used for the gas and add that back in.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I hate that they have it in there.

Just wait, it Tesla get Solar City, then they will have a line item showing how much cheaper the car will be if you get a solar roof. Get a free Model 3 with every solar roof! just sign here...

 

[chillaban]

The loan payment on the website should have been spot on, before taxes/fees, based on down payment shown (5% by default). What some might consider misleading is the top number they show which includes estimated gas savings. On a 78 month loan, that can represent close to $9K (by default) over the 6 1/2 years but obviously is not really a lower loan payment.

It should be but it's not. I don't see any sign that sales tax or DMV fees are baked into the lease estimate

 

[NikeWings]

It should be but it's not. I don't see any sign that sales tax or DMV fees are baked into the lease estimate

The website says exactly that:

Price indicated does not include taxes and registration fees unless stated otherwise. You will be responsible for these additional taxes and fees. The payment calculations are provided for informational purposes only and may reflect assumptions that may not apply to you or lease terms for which you may not qualify. Model S qualifies for a federal tax credit up to $7,500 which is already included in the payment calculations.

The website estimator is horrible as noted. It needs to be read carefully and it also does not automatically carry over your configuration. Caught myself a couple of times with the default configuration which was considerably cheaper. But the details provided from the finance team upon application approval, are spot on exact to those provided at closing and gives plenty of time to shop it or walk away.

 

[CapeOne]

Tesla should get rid of the gas savings when showing the final price of the car. It is hugely misleading.

Agree.

 

[CapeOne]

It should be but it's not.

While the numbers that include estimated gas savings are misleading (as already discussed), I find the other payment numbers to be pretty accurate. Can someone make a screen shot or type in figures here that they feel are way off?

On the design page, a $67,200 Model S 60 with $5,000 down is showing an $844 monthy payment number based on 78 month loan at 1.74% APR which is exactly (rounded to nearest dollar) correct. The separate lending page also shows the same correct number.

The lease numbers seem fine too.

 

[Qttire1]

Tell them to roll the taxes into the payment. Minimal difference over time and you don't have to come out of pocket that much. They did the same thing to us until we realized the first months payment and taxes were in there plus the rest of the down payment.

 

[chillaban]

While the numbers that include estimated gas savings are misleading (as already discussed), I find the other payment numbers to be pretty accurate. Can someone make a screen shot or type in figures here that they feel are way off?

On the design page, a $67,200 Model S 60 with $5,000 down is showing an $844 monthy payment number based on 78 month loan at 1.74% APR which is exactly (rounded to nearest dollar) correct. The separate lending page also shows the same correct number.

The lease numbers seem fine too.

That amount is fine but again, it's not the out-the-door price. Where's the $6,000 or so of sales tax? Where's the $1000 or so of registration fees?

My $87,500 MS build had a gross cost of $98,975.75 when the financing contract was prepared. And that was a combination of a $7800 sales tax bill that cannot be rolled into the financing with Chase, a minimum LTV of 90%, and $1200 or so of DMV licensing and California tire fees.


So no, no value shown on the site accurately reflects the out-the-door price of the car. I totally understand that the estimated gas savings are extra misleading, as is factoring in a $7500 federal tax credit and whatever local incentives to form an "effective down payment", but in the end I wrote a shiny check to the tune of $14,999.75, which was a lot more than I was originally expecting to pay out of pocket.


Don't get me wrong, in the end it was fine, but it was one of the more surprising sales experiences I've had in my years of automotive shopping. In fact I just helped my significant other close a deal on an Audi at the same time. The email quote from the salesperson was $700 something and change with zero due at signing. He just got his first bill and it was literally the exact same number. That's not something that Tesla reveals on day one, and I had to reply back to my financing guy a few times to get the real number for what's due at signing (because the initial "estimate" was less the California fees)

 

[shakgfm]

OP here. yes this is my exact experience right now as i am preparing to take my car tomorrow. I also never had this kid of experience where costs appear from right and left when dealing with good brands in the past, which is one major reason i stuck with them all these years. My current tesla experience reminds more of the old car salesmen i had to deal with when i was young and had no money. Not the treatment I want when I pay $90K for a car.

 

[ChadFeldheimer]

As of Oct 2015, it looks like sales tax for the entire lease term are payable up front. For Minnesota. That might explain it.

This is the case in Illinois as well.

 

[Az_Rael]

Hmm, all I have to say about this is as a future Model 3 buyer, they had better fix those estimates before they go mainstream. I would have to cancel the deal if they told me the day before that I needed to come up with an extra $5000 in 24 hours to take delivery of the car. Let alone an additional $10 grand like some of you have experienced.

 

[Az_Rael]

Hmm, after further digging, it appears Tesla doesn't have tax and registration info for all their store locations. That seems a bit ridiculous - they should be able to show taxes and registration fees for all their store locations. The other nationwide car dealership (CarMax) somehow manages it.

So here is a screen shot from the Minnesota store zip code. It does not include taxes or fees:


And here is the screen shot from a CA zip code. It does include taxes and fees:

 

[omarsultan]

Having bought two cars at this point, this has not been my experience. In both cases, I got a pro forma MVPA from my DS which had all the appropriate costs, fees, etc captured. It sounds like some communication was missed somewhere along the way.

 

[omarsultan]

And here is the screen shot from a CA zip code. It does include taxes and fees:

In CA, the registration fees go down to the county and city level. I would guess they don't want to burn the resources trying to keep up on every municipality in the US. The DMV has a site so you can get an get exact fees for your location.

 

[chillaban]

Having bought two cars at this point, this has not been my experience. In both cases, I got a pro forma MVPA from my DS which had all the appropriate costs, fees, etc captured. It sounds like some communication was missed somewhere along the way.

That's interesting to know. In the delivery thread, our group talked a lot about our general dissatisfaction with the delivery communications. Maybe it's luck of the draw, or maybe it's something that's changed more recently....

I didn't get a pro forma MVPA (a blank one with just the MSRP was added to my account shortly after my order confirmed) but 3 days after my order confirmed, my financing advisor started giving me somewhat real numbers ($15k or so initial estimate), and spilled the beans on the Alliant vs Tesla lending discrepancies.

I guess my main beef is that at this point, my $2500 deposit was already not refundable, and it feels too late at this point to tell me the real numbers. With every other car I've purchased/leased, I've been able to get a straight answer about the final final cost far before entering a binding contract.

For me it wasn't a huge deal because I knew I wanted a Tesla this time around. But usually I cross shop 2 or 3 neck-in-neck cars on my short list, and that would not have worked this time around.

 

[Az_Rael]

In CA, the registration fees go down to the county and city level. I would guess they don't want to burn the resources trying to keep up on every municipality in the US. The DMV has a site so you can get an get exact fees for your location.

Eh, if they are going to sell cars online, then their online tools should account for all the fees.

The OP didn't find out about the increased upfront costs until after his deposit was non-refundable. That is unlike any car purchase experience you get at a normal dealer. Even if you custom order a car and place a deposit, they will go over all the costs with you up front. This should have all been spelled out to the OP during the cancellation window.

 

[NikeWings]

Eh, if they are going to sell cars online, then their online tools should account for all the fees.

The OP didn't find out about the increased upfront costs until after his deposit was non-refundable. That is unlike any car purchase experience you get at a normal dealer. Even if you custom order a car and place a deposit, they will go over all the costs with you up front. This should have all been spelled out to the OP during the cancellation window.

Doesn't a traditional dealer effectively pre approve or confirm ability to pay, before allowing you to order/buy the car and therefore has all the personal data to provide the final specifics at the time of order/purchase?

I enjoyed Tesla bucking old dealer ways with its process, but it's clear not all do. Pre-quali is easy to incorporate and would reduce misunderstanding and comeback risk to Tesla. A $2500 deposit doesn't seem like a fair trade to take back a $100k custom car anyway. As unfortunate as this is, I still don't think Tesla was trying to screw the OP.

 

[bhzmark]

The OP didn't find out about the increased upfront costs until after his deposit was non-refundable. That is unlike any car purchase experience you get at a normal dealer. Even if you custom order a car and place a deposit, they will go over all the costs with you up front. This should have all been spelled out to the OP during the cancellation window.

Other car dealers were worse. Lexus took my money as a deposit on a special order car (dealer was too stupid to have any pipeline of cars on lot with adaptive cruise, so only way to get was special order). But refused to agree on the price of the car . Said it will be what it is when it comes. I had to walk and dispute credit card deposit.

My experience with tesla was much better and all costs were in a truly detailed purchase agt that was emailed and available on mytesla. And they were fine with me paying by personal check and lender check at delivery.

 

[Canuck]

My current tesla experience reminds more of the old car salesmen i had to deal with when i was young and had no money. Not the treatment I want when I pay $90K for a car.

Regardless of the price of an item, or a person's net worth, the treatment you receive should be the same. Tesla need to get their arse in gear and be more up front in disclosing all costs, and they need to drop the gas savings gimmick. Everyone knows when they buy an electric vehicle they won't be buying gas and we all know how much we paid for gas in the past.

I also never had this kid of experience where costs appear from right and left when dealing with good brands in the past, which is one major reason i stuck with them all these years.

Well if that's "one major reason" you stuck with them get ready for never looking back. You're going to have a ton of new major reasons for loving your new vehicle once you get over this unfortunate hump (pun intended - since you think you're being screwed).

I enjoyed Tesla bucking old dealer ways but it's clear not all do.

This is the case for the vast majority of people buying a Tesla, especially if you pay cash for your vehicle, like most of us here do. I'll never miss going back to a car dealer. My wife loves BMW's but I always have to step in and do the "negotiating" when it comes to buying a new one and they're no different than all other car dealers, or the carnival barker at the local fair for that matter. It's all a game and I hate playing it. That's why Tesla is such a breath of fresh air.

 

[CapeOne]

That amount is fine but again, it's not the out-the-door price. Where's the $6,000 or so of sales tax? Where's the $1000 or so of registration fees?

For California, if you go to the Tesla lending page and plug in your zip code, car information (model and build price) and desired loan terms, it will provide sales tax, registration fee and other information. Same is true for the Tesla leasing page.

See screen shots below.

 

[tagpats]

Can't explain the confusion on this one, but the leasing terms are straight forward. $5000 down payment + $695 acquisition fee + sales tax and dmv fees + first monthly payment, less your $2500 order deposit = what is due on delivery.

In my state you can roll your sales tax into the lease payment to bring down your total due at delivery if you want. I believe that sales tax number is what was not accounted for in your total. You should have received a lease payment document that spells out each of these items, including the $395 you will pay when your lease ends and you turn in your car. It also would tell you how your monthly payment changes depending on whether you go with a 10k, 12k or 15k mileage allotment and the quarter per mile charge for overage.

MyTesla will show you the total cost of your car, including taxes, fees and delivery less the $7500 tax credit and give you the final leasing/financing amount used to calculate your lease payment. You can make your payment online before delivery or bring your checkbook on day of.

Let us know how it all worked out. Nothing fishy here just a missing email or two. Something fell through the cracks. The Tesla finance people are responsive if you email them to ask questions.