Hey moderator, where is the 'Hey Elon, where is FSD?' thread?

[182RG]

In another year AP2 will be dialed in

Meh assertion. How many said this about March? June? Now? You have no basis for "another year". EM packs a lot of arrogance and hubris. All the talk about neural nets, and machine learning are pure hype and vaporware. Let's check back in a year...

How's this for a prediction? I predict in another year, Cadillac, Audi, Volvo, and others will have eclipsed Tesla in self driving technology...without the ridiculous hype.

 

[deonb]

Thanks! search (or the searcher ) is nearly worthless

That's why our overlords gave us The Google:

elon fsd site:teslamotorsclub.com

First hit.

 

[bonnie]

I was actually briefly banned on here for brining that up. I guess she ran to the moderators.

I rarely *run to the moderators*, and certainly not for grade-school type taunts directed towards me. The moderators are actually capable of reading threads. Why do you insist on belittling me?

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Locked

At least I got the last word.

"I don't know why the people that prepaid for FSD are any more entitled to upgrades than others. We all paid for a car with FSD hardware with the option to activate it at later date. We just weren't willing to give Tesla a no interest loan."

Wonder why they shut it down. The thread didn't look anymore out of control than my autopilot.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Guys, any chance we can steer back to Elon's FSD promises?

How's this for a prediction? I predict in another year, Cadillac, Audi, Volvo, and others will have eclipsed Tesla in self driving technology...without the ridiculous hype.

That is certainly possible. Arguably Pro Pilot 2 and related aids from Volvo are already superior to AP1 and AP2 as they currently stand - similar lane keeping and superior blind spot detection and 360 vision available to the user. A new Volvo helps the driver more today than a new Tesla.

Cadillac's Super Cruise and Audi A8 Level 3 system are also interesting developments.

But let's consider Elon's now debunked 3-6 month tweet in January. What was it based on? Unless we think he totally lied, I think it comes down to one of two:

1) Tesla is adding e.g. some fisheye camera use on top of EAP to recognize traffic lights etc. and offers this to FSD cars only on the basis that EAP uses four cameras only (its front main and narrow are too narrow to see lights and side marker cameras look back).

or

2) Tesla's separate (and it is separate) FSD codebase is much further along than in pessimistic analysis and will soon run the show instead of the limited EAP codebase. (The coast to coast might tell us something.)

Well, recently some traffic light graphics were found in the firmware... maybe a traffic sign and light assistance that works only on FSD cars (or speed signs only on EAP)...

 

[Impala1ss]

To address the question about why the prior thread was closed, it had turned into nothing more than an argumentative crap-fest. The amount of work to moderate it was out of control and other than the handful of people arguing with each other it failed to contribute anything of value to the forum.

So, happy to keep this thread alive and open unless and until it takes the same turn the previous one did. You guys start name calling, insulting, and going off topic with ad hominum attacks, we'll shut this down too.

Suggest you not close down thread because it had turned into nothing more than an argumentative crap-fest. Handle the abusers individually and ban them for however long you feel necessary. I've noticed the demeaning posts by some and they should be handled also. There is no place for insults and demeaning behavior; differences of opinion, yes - personal insults, no. Many other forums handle it this way.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Anyone have comments to my two FSD only feature theories 1) or 2) above? Perhaps @lunitiks or @verygreen?

 

[182RG]

Unless we think he totally lied, I think it comes down to one of two

I'll take "Totally Lied" for $500, Alex.

 

[oktane]

With the extremely slow speed of firmware updates and complete inability to perfect even basic tasks, even optimistic people by now are realizing that Tesla will never achieve what they promised to deliver and accepted real money for in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[NerdUno]

Keep in mind that these are the same fine folks that said 90% of FSD coding is easy. Now (10 months later with zero code) that's funny.

 

[NerdUno]

Those of us that acquired Tesla AP2 vehicles in the last quarter of 2016 and early 2017 endured a pretty brutal reception here when we posted all the problems we were having. Comments ranged from "learn how to do drive" to "ours work fine so quit whining." Well, guess what? Now there are nothing but new AP2 vehicles being sold, and the problems are rampant as are the complaints.

There was deception in Tesla's representations to all of us in the Q4/2016 class. And Tesla painted over it on their web site as if it never happened. A simple apology would probably have been enough for some of us. But instead we've endured 8 months of stonewalling WITH REALLY DANGEROUS FIRMWARE. So... all of you AP1 folks with all the answers, do us a favor. Sell your perfect car and buy a new Tesla. Then we'll talk.

 

[verygreen]

But let's consider Elon's now debunked 3-6 month tweet in January. What was it based on? Unless we think he totally lied, I think it comes down to one of two:

1) Tesla is adding e.g. some fisheye camera use on top of EAP to recognize traffic lights etc. and offers this to FSD cars only on the basis that EAP uses four cameras only (its front main and narrow are too narrow to see lights and side marker cameras look back).

or

2) Tesla's separate (and it is separate) FSD codebase is much further along than in pessimistic analysis and will soon run the show instead of the limited EAP codebase. (The coast to coast might tell us something.)

Well, recently some traffic light graphics were found in the firmware... maybe a traffic sign and light assistance that works only on FSD cars (or speed signs only on EAP)...

I cannot comment on #2 because I don't really know. It sounds possible, but not very likely in my view. I'd be happy to be proven wrong here.

As for #1 - the ic graphics long predates AP2, I have a firmware dump from early January 2016 and it already had a bunch of this.

It's not Russia down there -- yet.

Now this is from a person accusing others of not traveling the world and being naive about other countries? Have you ever been to Russia?

 

[Draginol]

I consider the FSD debate a distraction to the main issue which is Tesla was very clear that enhanced auto pilot would go out in December 2016.

I’m genuinely surprised at how poor auto pilot 2 at this point which makes me fear that the issue has more to do with patents than code. I suspect that MobilEye had (or licensed) a lot of real-time vision related patents and that Tesla is stalled not by coding or hardware buy patent licensing and/or avoidance.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But let's not talk about that. It doesn't fit in with the "Tesla is a fraud" whining narrative.

It fits perfectly with the Tesla changed since pre-2014 narrative.

IMO much of your concern of "whining" stems from the fact that Tesla has changed and done a lot of questionable stuff since the admirable early days. The patents were the early days.

AP2, P85D HP, P90DL limiters etc... those are the latter day issues.

IMO it is also impolite and dismissive to call people whiners. I can see how that can get some disagrees.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

As for #1 - the ic graphics long predates AP2, I have a firmware dump from early January 2016 and it already had a bunch of this.

OK, thanks. Good info. So we don't know if/when traffic light recognition might come...

 

[u00mem9]

I find myself not wanting to read or write here anymore.

Despite your explanation, it's also likely that it has become much less fun to apologize for Tesla's actions over the last 12 months... I can remember how vehemently some defended Tesla when AP2 parity was ONLY a month late...now 8 months later, it doesn't surprise me when most of those people don't show their face around here to tell us how we shouldn't be so suspicious of Tesla's uber-pure motives.

List 'em up:

-Battery capacity dishonesty
-Q3 2016 blowout sale 'oops!' dishonesty (Leon personally involved)
-Power output advertised dishonesty
-Ludicrous secret launch counter OTA degrade 1600A to 1500A dishonesty followed by update claimed to return performance that actually makes the performance inaccessible dishonesty
-Supercharger charge rate restrictions dishonesty
-AP2 EAP dishonesty when even parity was in question
-FSD dishonesty when the boss didn't like the technical reality so just made up something more marketable

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. I love my Model S, but this company is run by snakes pure and simple. Shocking that coming to the forum to be their apologists has lost its charm.

 

[croman]

It is a myth that Tesla opened up its patents for everyone to use. Tesla merely makes a promise not to litigate patent infringement if a competitor uses patented techniques if they comply with Tesla's open licensing scheme. There is a big difference between "opening" a patent up and agreeing not to sue for licensed use. Tesla is merely more permissive than most tech companies but is not actually ruining a right to exclude.

 

[Magus]

Despite your explanation, it's also likely that it has become much less fun to apologize for Tesla's actions over the last 12 months... I can remember how vehemently some defended Tesla when AP2 parity was ONLY a month late...now 8 months later, it doesn't surprise me when most of those people don't show their face around here to tell us how we shouldn't be so suspicious of Tesla's uber-pure motives.

List 'em up:

-Battery capacity dishonesty
-Q3 2016 blowout sale 'oops!' dishonesty (Leon personally involved)
-Power output advertised dishonesty
-Ludicrous secret launch counter OTA degrade 1600A to 1500A dishonesty followed by update claimed to return performance that actually makes the performance inaccessible dishonesty
-Supercharger charge rate restrictions dishonesty
-AP2 EAP dishonesty when even parity was in question
-FSD dishonesty when the boss didn't like the technical reality so just made up something more marketable

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch. I love my Model S, but this company is run by snakes pure and simple. Shocking that coming to the forum to be their apologists has lost its charm.

You mean like the 100D having 102 kWh? Or 70D that was higher than 70kwh? Or having 0-60 scores better than advertised? Well that's inconvenient for your argument. A few off the 85 is small timer. So are the ludicrous changes. Some changes were for battery protection. There are accurate and inaccurate ways to view things. AP2 progress is quite concerning. But I do not at all see these issues as snake like. Very myopic focus.

I would surmise your arguments as generalizing, labeling, discounting the positive, and magnifying the negative.

 

[Magus]

Elon has fully self driving* and landing rockets, not sure why everyone is disparaging of FSD with 2.0 hardware. We don't know what we don't know. Different beasts of course but the achievement is there nonetheless. The largest issue here is one of timing and expectations.

I was involved in the development of a non Tesla program that was flailing. We stuck it out and now have a successful program. If I was on the autopilot team I would have stayed. I wonder if part of the reason for the delays included losing talent.

 

[oktane]

Elon has fully self driving* and landing rockets, not sure why everyone is disparaging of FSD with 2.0 hardware. We don't know what we don't know. Different beasts of course but the achievement is there nonetheless. The largest issue here is one of timing and expectations.

I was involved in the development of a non Tesla program that was flailing. We stuck it out and now have a successful program. If I was on the autopilot team I would have stayed. I wonder if part of the reason for the delays included losing talent.

Are you implying that the falcon rockets use AP2 hardware? If not I don't understand your point.