Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?

[Matias]

I drive like this and get zero nags

I even tested this and still no nags

all you need to do, is create small torque to the wheel. You don’t need to squeeze it.

Don’t use two hands, then your hands will cancel each other.

AP 1, Europe, 21.9

 

[ArbitrageMan]

I think Tesla needs to change the narrative around the whole issue.

Right now the narrative is, autopilot is enabling people to ignore their responsibility, which and is resulting in lots of accidents. Clearly that narrative is not aligned with reality, but Tesla has no choice but to seem to be doing something about the perceived problem.

A proactive strategy, either via broad TV ads, or targeted social media campaigns, would change perception. It should feature benefits like:

• someone having a health emergency behind the wheel and the car stopping
• autopilot steers the car out of the way of a car that cut it off
• people talking about feeling less tired at the end of a trip
• statistics on crashes / injuries relative to the total driving population
• etc...

Like so much today, the truth matters a lot less than the winning narrative.

 

[MarkS22]

I drive like this and get zero nags
View attachment 309328


I even tested this and still no nags

View attachment 309330

all you need to do, is create small torque to the wheel. You don’t need to squeeze it.

Don’t use two hands, then your hands will cancel each other.

AP 1, Europe, 21.9

I’ve tried this, as well as resting my left elbow on the door and hand in the 9/10 position holding the wheel. If I intentionally and consciously apply a little downward (left turn) pressure it works, but if I just naturally hold it, the nags return.

Something is wrong with the system if I have to apply turning pressure when it’s not needed. I’m basically using brain power to remember to “keep Autopilot happy” instead of fully watching the road and having my hand 100% ready to take over. This happens on a 2014 P85D and and 2018 Model 3. Both have .19 now, but it has been happening for years.

 

[Krazaak]

I’ve tried this, as well as resting my left elbow on the door and hand in the 9/10 position holding the wheel. If I intentionally and consciously apply a little downward (left turn) pressure it works, but if I just naturally hold it, the nags return.

Something is wrong with the system if I have to apply turning pressure when it’s not needed. I’m basically using brain power to remember to “keep Autopilot happy” instead of fully watching the road and having my hand 100% ready to take over. This happens on a 2014 P85D and and 2018 Model 3. Both have .19 now, but it has been happening for years.

I agree that it's annoying, especially because I consider driving with two hands safer than one. The issue though, is it's the only sensor the car has to gauge driver attention. The next time somebody crashes on AP with 2018.21.9 or higher, they'll be another outcry about AP crashing a car when it's really about drivers not paying attention and Tesla will be forced to try and find some way to enhance that nag further.

Wait until a serious crash can be contributed to somebody using an autopilot buddy or some other defeat system. Then we'll need to alternate wheel torque from right to left every 30 seconds to avoid nags.

Right now, the easiest way to keep autopilot happy is one hand with enough resting weight to impart bit of torque on the wheel. It isn't optimal, but it's reliable. If that doesn't work for somebody, then there's probably something wrong with their car. Tesla's not likely to backpedal on the nag until the autopilot system has FSD capabilities.

 

[rnortman]

Don’t use two hands, then your hands will cancel each other.

Yeah, this is the whole problem. You need to apply asymmetric force, which means one hand placed somewhere other than center. And you need to be applying force but not too much force. Over a long drive this is actually very tiring. On top of that, it's less safe than two hands. The most comfortable thing for me is to have two hands on the wheel symmetrically, specifically because neither hand then needs to "apply torque but not too much torque". This is also the safest.

But this is a fundamental design flaw in Teslas which forces us into uncomfortable, unsafe driving positions. Good job Elon, at least you saved a few bucks on that eye tracker (or perhaps on a more sensitive/reliable torque sensor).

 

[jelloslug]

Yeah, this is the whole problem. You need to apply asymmetric force, which means one hand placed somewhere other than center. And you need to be applying force but not too much force. Over a long drive this is actually very tiring. On top of that, it's less safe than two hands. The most comfortable thing for me is to have two hands on the wheel symmetrically, specifically because neither hand then needs to "apply torque but not too much torque". This is also the safest.

But this is a fundamental design flaw in Teslas which forces us into uncomfortable, unsafe driving positions. Good job Elon, at least you saved a few bucks on that eye tracker (or perhaps on a more sensitive/reliable torque sensor).

Sunglasses.

 

[rnortman]

Sunglasses.

This is a good point. Self-driving is full of hard problems. Too bad Elon didn't think through them all and ignored the people who knew what they were talking about.

 

[alcibiades]

Sunglasses.

Cadillac's system works with sunglasses, so what's your point?

 

[rnortman]

Cadillac's system works with sunglasses, so what's your point?

Cadillac's system is an active eye tracker from what I understand; I think it actually fires low-power lasers at your eyes to help detect the pupils through sunglasses and whatever else. Model 3 has a passive visible-light (as far as we know) wide-angle (it would have to be to see the driver given where it is) cabin-facing camera. I don't think it's likely to work well with dark or reflective glasses on; maybe lightly tinted glasses would work, probably unreliably.

 

[jelloslug]

Cadillac's system works with sunglasses, so what's your point?

There is no proof of that yet.

 

[jelloslug]

Cadillac's system is an active eye tracker from what I understand; I think it actually fires low-power lasers at your eyes to help detect the pupils through sunglasses and whatever else. Model 3 has a passive visible-light (as far as we know) wide-angle (it would have to be to see the driver given where it is) cabin-facing camera. I don't think it's likely to work well with dark or reflective glasses on; maybe lightly tinted glasses would work, probably unreliably.

polarized glasses would block that.

 

[alcibiades]

There is no proof of that yet.

Cadillac's Super Cruise Makes The Self-Driving Future Seem Possible

The Cadillac CT6 review: Super Cruise is a game-changer | Ars ...

Cadillac's hands-free feature fixes the worst parts about driving

How Tesla Autopilot compares to Cadillac Super Cruise - Business ...

The Battle for Best Semi-Autonomous System: Tesla Autopilot Vs. GM ...

2018 Cadillac CT6 Super Cruise: Can the Car Really Drive Itself ...

There is a difference between one's own laziness to acquire knowledge and "lack of proof".

 

[MarkS22]

I agree that it's annoying, especially because I consider driving with two hands safer than one. The issue though, is it's the only sensor the car has to gauge driver attention. The next time somebody crashes on AP with 2018.21.9 or higher, they'll be another outcry about AP crashing a car when it's really about drivers not paying attention and Tesla will be forced to try and find some way to enhance that nag further.

Wait until a serious crash can be contributed to somebody using an autopilot buddy or some other defeat system. Then we'll need to alternate wheel torque from right to left every 30 seconds to avoid nags.

Right now, the easiest way to keep autopilot happy is one hand with enough resting weight to impart bit of torque on the wheel. It isn't optimal, but it's reliable. If that doesn't work for somebody, then there's probably something wrong with their car. Tesla's not likely to backpedal on the nag until the autopilot system has FSD capabilities.

Conversely, wait until someone crashes because they were looking down at the nag every 30 seconds. And then Tesla claims they didn’t detect a hand on the wheel. Or holding the steering wheel in an unfamiliar/less optimal way to stop the nags hurts response time. It goes both ways and, for some of us, it makes us pay less attention to the road and more on making the system happy.

 

[jelloslug]

Conversely, wait until someone crashes because they were looking down at the nag every 30 seconds. And then Tesla claims they didn’t detect a hand on the wheel. Or holding it steering wheel in an unfamiliar/less optimal way to stop the nags hurts response time. It goes both ways and, for some of us, it makes us pay less attention to the road and more on making the system happy.

Where exactly are you looking at that requires you to completely look down?

 

[MarkS22]

polarized glasses would block that.

Ok, if the polarized lenses prevent it, fallback to the nag timer based on torque.

 

[MarkS22]

Where exactly are you looking at that requires you to completely look down?

Either the IC on the Model S or off to the side and down on the screen on the Model 3. It’s not a major distraction but it grabs my attention and takes it away from the road for a moment. Usually, I’m concerned how long it has been up and I’m afraid it’s going to deactivate Autopilot for the rest of the trip.

 

[GatorGuy]

I had no idea so many people were driving without their hands on the wheel. I'm sure this will flood me with dislikes, but I'm glad they implemented the decreased intervals.

Autopilot isn't a hands-off system.

 

[SSonnentag]

Put both hands on the wheel exactly as you would if you were steering the car. When the car turns the wheel it will detect the resistance your hands provide to it turning. There are no sensors in the wheel to detect your hands.

This works fine if the road has turns in it. Ever driven across Arizona? Nevada? It's not rare to drive 10-20 miles without the slightest hint of a curve.

 

[boonedocks]

I had no idea so many people were driving without their hands on the wheel. I'm sure this will flood me with dislikes, but I'm glad they implemented the decreased intervals.

Autopilot isn't a hands-off system.

Kind of funny coming from someone with full intent to break the law!! LOL LOL J/K

 

[rnortman]

I had no idea so many people were driving without their hands on the wheel. I'm sure this will flood me with dislikes, but I'm glad they implemented the decreased intervals.

Autopilot isn't a hands-off system.

Have you actually read the posts where people are complaining about this? We are complaining that with both hands on the wheel, the system does not detect that you have your hands on the wheel and nags you. This is the problem.

The fix for this problem is to have only one hand on the wheel. Then it doesn't nag you. This is ridiculous for Tesla to have a system that discourages doing the more safe thing.

Sure, there are also people who think they should not have to have hands on the wheel at all, but I am certainly not one of them. To the contrary, I want to have twice as many hands on the wheel as the nag system encourages.