Hold Steering Wheel every 20-25 seconds?

[jgs]

Does AP1 stop for stopped cars? I mean if you come up on cars that are already stopped; I know it stops if you are following a lead car which comes to a stop.

Yes, it does.

I mean, I’ve never tested it to the limits, but my experience supports the consensus here that as long as the delta-v is less than 50 mph (so, you’re traveling at < 50 mph as you approach the stopped car) then it’ll stop. I frequently use TACC for city street driving, and while I confess I normally override it when approaching traffic stopped at a light, I don’t always, and it’s never failed to stop.

 

[ai4px]

Both have gotten the AP disconnect when apparently my jiggle was insufficient.
.

Reminds me of my iphone... you're holding it wrong! Tessie does't like being jiggled, she needs soft steady tugs. snicker.

 

[Marshallo]

What’s this “we”? Mine works fine. A little naggier I guess but really, not a big deal. I’d put it back if I could — I guess — but you can leave me out of “we all”.

I get that you’re upset. My point is, you’re quite mistaken to think everyone is.

My point is that with the latest autopilot update, it has made the autopilot feature almost useless with all the nagging. Why should I have to jiggle the steering wheel every time the nagging starts to make it stop?
May I ask how many miles a day you drive with autopilot on?
My work commute is 84 miles one way and mostly freeways, So, I do a good deal of driving
If you read the posts there are a great deal of folks that are having the same issue and complaining about it. I am not the only one.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

If you accept the basis that you should hold the wheel, it's only technique that's causing it to nag. Just apply gentle turning force by using the weight of your arm to turn the wheel, and keep it like that. You don't want a neutral twisting force, it's as if you're holding it with sufficient force to steer it either left or right and allow AP to push back to hold the line. Once you get the idea it's obvious.

If you don't believe in holding the wheel at all, you need to think again as its always been in the instructions and the idea of an aid over an autonomous system. You've been living on borrowed time and few didn't make it in my opinion.. .

 

[MorrisonHiker]

If you accept the basis that you should hold the wheel, it's only technique that's causing it to nag. Just apply gentle turning force by using the weight of your arm to turn the wheel, and keep it like that. You don't want a neutral twisting force, it's as if you're holding it with sufficient force to steer it either left or right and allow AP to push back to hold the line. Once you get the idea it's obvious.

If you don't believe in holding the wheel at all, you need to think again as its always been in the instructions and the idea of an aid over an autonomous system. You've been living on borrowed time and few didn't make it in my opinion.. .

The problem is that many of us our are holding the wheel the same way we have for years. I have over 16,000 miles on my Model S and don't get too many nags in my car. When I drive another Model S in my household, I get constant nags every 20 seconds even though I hold the steering wheel the same way.

Obviously the latest update behaves differently on different cars and people are complaining because we are following the rules and the cars aren't responding correctly. That's great if you don't have the problem on your car but many others do.

 

[TheLocNar]

I know it's been said already:

You should always be holding it.

 

[MIT_S60]

I made a few tests yesterday night. I prepared a few calibrated bags of sand 100g 200g and 400g, so I could do any combination from 100g to 700g.
I did my test on a stretch of highway which comprise both some long straights and a series of right/left bends on a total lenght of 20Km.
I was suspending the bags with an hook to the rightmost point of the wheel ray, where it connects to the wheel ring (immediately above to the right scroll whell + buttons)
I started from the lightest weight and progressively increased it till I got no more nags.
The I repeated the process starting from the heaviest weight and progressively reducing it till I got no nags.
I both cases I got to a point where 400g (0.88lbs) was doing the trick: i.e. no nags in any situation: straight road, bending road, change of lane.
300g was enough to avoid nags on a straight, but the car started nagging me if I wanted to change lane, or if I was in a long bend.

I'm curious about what weight others should use, I think that different models/years have different tresholds.

Now I need to go find out what the weight of an Autopilot Buddy is

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Now I need to go find out what the weight of an Autopilot Buddy is

I can help, it’s the weight of your forearm.

 

[iwannam3]

The whole thing is ridiculous. I can hold the wheel and close my eyes, and be horribly unsafe yet pass the "test". I can watch the road closely without holding the wheel and be very safe, except I'll miss the visual-only nags because I'm too busy watching the road.

On the Model 3 Elon can activate the rear view camera and watch your eyes. I'm sure it will happen if enough people pretend that they are entitled to full self driving when all they have is a driver's aid, autopilot, which should have been named "Lane Aware Cruise Control". If enough people abuse the system, restrictions will only get tighter and tighter. If abusers sue after misusing the systems it will get tighter faster. Use it correctly or we will all loose it bit by bit.

 

[ZoomFPV]

I ordered a 1 pound lead bead bag weight used for scuba diving. I will let you know my weight results to get nag free. I feel mine needs so much force to keep it off as it comes on even when I have a hand on the wheel.

 

[rnortman]

If you accept the basis that you should hold the wheel, it's only technique that's causing it to nag. Just apply gentle turning force by using the weight of your arm to turn the wheel, and keep it like that. You don't want a neutral twisting force, it's as if you're holding it with sufficient force to steer it either left or right and allow AP to push back to hold the line. Once you get the idea it's obvious.

If you don't believe in holding the wheel at all, you need to think again as its always been in the instructions and the idea of an aid over an autonomous system. You've been living on borrowed time and few didn't make it in my opinion.. .

Can you please read the posts before responding to them? Most of us are complaining that there is no reasonable, comfortable, passive way to hold the wheel WITH TWO HANDS that avoids the nags on straight roads. Everybody knows you can avoid the nags by resting one hand or forearm on the wheel such that there is unbalanced light pressure in one direction. Nobody disputes this (that I've seen). Very few people are saying that they don't want to hold the wheel at all; I agree with you entirely that this is unwise. Where we seem to disagree is that I go one step further and say that resting your forearm or one hand on the wheel is also too dangerous for my liking. I want to have two hands on the wheel most of the time. But this will not satisfy the nag machine.

 

[jgs]

My point is that with the latest autopilot update, it has made the autopilot feature almost useless with all the nagging. Why should I have to jiggle the steering wheel every time the nagging starts to make it stop?

Because AP will stop working if you don't. More seriously, Tesla has obviously got a tightrope to walk between maximum permissiveness (making you happy) and minimizing distracted driving (keeping NHTSA happy, and for that matter being able to sleep at night). I am pretty sure nobody would be happy if NHTSA ordered the feature disabled.

May I ask how many miles a day you drive with autopilot on?

You may ask!

... Fewer than you. I'm glad I don't have your commute. However, I do my share of long drives, though not daily. I probably have something like 15,000 lifetime AP miles so hardly a record holder but not a n00b.

My work commute is 84 miles one way and mostly freeways, So, I do a good deal of driving
If you read the posts there are a great deal of folks that are having the same issue and complaining about it. I am not the only one.

Sure. I was disputing your hyperbole ("doesn't work at all", "we all", etc). Is this kind of "no problem here!" comment worth making? I think so, it's a well-known effect that negatives tend to get exaggerated in online discussion because squeaky wheels tend to post and happy customers tend to remain silent.

Anyway, I hope you and the other disgruntled folks get your fix soon.

 

[kaczmarczyk]

Now I need to go find out what the weight of an Autopilot Buddy is

I ordered a 1 pound lead bead bag weight used for scuba diving. I will let you know my weight results to get nag free. I feel mine needs so much force to keep it off as it comes on even when I have a hand on the wheel.

I have heard a 1.5lb ankle strap weight will work too

 

[f205v]

Thanks for bringing the science, but you forgot to mention what your test vehicle is (model, options, and month/year of delivery).

Sorry, I can not set a signature with my model/year (yet), because I do not have enough posts.
WOOPS! it's my 20th post, now I have signature as well!
In any case: Model S 100D, September 2017, AP2.0 MCU1

 

[Marshallo]

Can you please read the posts before responding to them? Most of us are complaining that there is no reasonable, comfortable, passive way to hold the wheel WITH TWO HANDS that avoids the nags on straight roads. Everybody knows you can avoid the nags by resting one hand or forearm on the wheel such that there is unbalanced light pressure in one direction. Nobody disputes this (that I've seen). Very few people are saying that they don't want to hold the wheel at all; I agree with you entirely that this is unwise. Where we seem to disagree is that I go one step further and say that resting your forearm or one hand on the wheel is also too dangerous for my liking. I want to have two hands on the wheel most of the time. But this will not satisfy the nag machine.

rnortman, 100 percent agree with your above post! This is the issue. Tesla needs to fix this fast! Tesla customers paid 5k for the autopilot feature and now it does not work.

Personally, I feel that there needs to be better sensors on the steering wheel so that the car can sense when someone has their hands on the wheel or not. This is the issue.

Having to apply light pressure in one direction on the steering when you are driving straight on the freeway and the car is already centered in the lane is just plan CRAZY! I can not believe that more Tesla owners are not upset about this new update. I know that Tesla is walking a fine line between safety and regulation, but Tesla is the one that is selling the autopilot feature, and right now it doesn't work!

I am also not saying that people should be able to take their hands off the wheel when the autopilot feature is enabled.

 

[Marshallo]

I made a few tests yesterday night. I prepared a few calibrated bags of sand 100g 200g and 400g, so I could do any combination from 100g to 700g.
I did my test on a stretch of highway which comprise both some long straights and a series of right/left bends on a total lenght of 20Km.
I was suspending the bags with an hook to the rightmost point of the wheel ray, where it connects to the wheel ring (immediately above to the right scroll whell + buttons)
I started from the lightest weight and progressively increased it till I got no more nags.
The I repeated the process starting from the heaviest weight and progressively reducing it till I got no nags.
I both cases I got to a point where 400g (0.88lbs) was doing the trick: i.e. no nags in any situation: straight road, bending road, change of lane.
300g was enough to avoid nags on a straight, but the car started nagging me if I wanted to change lane, or if I was in a long bend.

I'm curious about what weight others should use, I think that different models/years have different tresholds.

I get why you are doing these tests, but the bottom line is that Tesla owners shouldn't have to be doing any of these tests to try and fix something that is broken or flawed with the autopilot feature because of the latest software update. We all paid 5 k for autopilot! Tesla should fix it!

 

[Marshallo]

If you accept the basis that you should hold the wheel, it's only technique that's causing it to nag. Just apply gentle turning force by using the weight of your arm to turn the wheel, and keep it like that. You don't want a neutral twisting force, it's as if you're holding it with sufficient force to steer it either left or right and allow AP to push back to hold the line. Once you get the idea it's obvious.

If you don't believe in holding the wheel at all, you need to think again as its always been in the instructions and the idea of an aid over an autonomous system. You've been living on borrowed time and few didn't make it in my opinion.. .

Who said anything about not holding the wheel at all. I do hold the wheel at all times. Why should I have to "apply gentle turning force and then allow AP to push back to hold the line"??? This solution is pure CRAZINESS! It does not solve the problem. We still have an autopilot feature that does not work!

 

[Snowstorm]

The 15-20s check is just too frequent for this imperfect hands detection method. Back when it was 1-2 min, you can det ct your hands 50% of the time and will be ok because there is more time for it to det ct your hand torque. Now, it frequently nags at me, even as I am holding the wheel and applying a bit of force. It feels like walking a tight rope, too little force then nag and AP disable, too much force than you exit AP and the car jerks to the side.

I would say Tesla should just add a setting to autopilot and allow people to select sensitivity between recommended (15-20s) or low (2min). Those people who select low would then have to watch a tutorial video and wire their name that they understand what is going on.

 

[jgs]

Who said anything about not holding the wheel at all. I do hold the wheel at all times. Why should I have to "apply gentle turning force and then allow AP to push back to hold the line"??? This solution is pure CRAZINESS! It does not solve the problem. We still have an autopilot feature that does not work!

The fact the car doesn’t have sensors to enable a different solution suggests you may want to recalibrate your expectations.

 

[sknaf]

I am a new tesla S owner, and the nag makes autop unusable. I have my hands on the wheel, but unless I twist it back and forth the car thinks I don't have my hands on the wheel.

I have now solved this by sticking a 1/2 full bike water bottle in the lower right gap in the wheel.
Much happier, and now the car "knows" I have my hands on the wheel.

BTW: Is that a feature that the car will not change lanes into or out of the HOV lane ?

~Scott