Home charger options

[Andyw2100]

Did I just hear that the Model S has a timer/control to both start charging when Time-of-Use is favorable, and to limit the charge rate (so not to blow an undersized breaker). I can't find a source for the timer question.

OK - so I CAN start charging whenever I wish, and at a rate I wish. Can I also turn off the charging just before the rates spike?

I see you have received some responses to these questions in this thread. Some are correct, some are incorrect, and some are incomplete.

I had answered a similar question you posted in another thread here: Reservation tracker for Model 3

Here is part of what I wrote in that response:

--
The Model S does allow you to plug in, and set the time when you want the charge to start, and in all likelihood the Model 3 will as well. But what I mean about being careful about what Desert Driver may have been asking, the Model S does not allow for a feature I have seen requested, which is for true Time Of Use (TOU) tables to be entered, and then for the car to only charge intelligently during the low rate periods. For example, the feature I have seen requested might have a low rate ending at 7:00 AM, and then starting again at 5:00 PM, and the user would like the TOU charging system to stop the charge at 7:00 AM if it has not completed by that time, and to then resume it at 5:00 PM, when the rates are low again. The Model S --DOES NOT-- have a system that allows for this, so if that is what Desert Driver meant when he asked about a TOU charging system, then the answer would be no.

Again, we can plug in, and delay the time the charge starts. It is also pretty easy to make the charge end at a given time by setting the charge level and estimating how fast the charge will occur. So if you knew that after 1.5 hours you'd be getting into a higher rate, and wanted your charge to stop before then, you would just adjust the state of charge percentage that you were shooting for such that the car would finish charging at about that time. Just please be careful and don't call this TOU charging, because I believe the people looking for that feature want to be able to enter a table of times and then have the car start and stop charging as needed such that it charges only during the low-rate times

 

[AndreSF]

OP,

Like others said, it's likely a bit premature to install an EVSE now, as there will be more devices in a couple of years, but I would personally recommend taking a look at OpenEVSE (OpenEV Store - OpenEV Store ). I think it's the most affordable EVSE with options to adjust to your specific power capabilities. This is a device I would likely use myself if/when my current Voltec (EVSE I've installed and have used for Volt for 3+ years) dies.
IMO there is definitely some value in having a dedicated device from convenience perspective, as well as redundancy (EVSE + UMC)

 

[Tree95]

I personally don't see the point of the HPWC.

The advantage of the HPWC isn't just the higher possible charge rate. Mine is hooked to a 50A breaker, so it's no faster than the UMC included with the car. But, my HPWC is wall mounted, and the cable is both longer and more sturdy than the one on the UMC. I leave the UMC and a pile of adapters in the frunk for traveling.

The HPWC can be mounted outdoors in the weather no problem for those without covered parking.

 

[CuriousG]

Assuming you want to always have the UMC with you in the car, just to be safe, to charge with it at home you will constantly be packing it up and unpacking it. Or you'll wind up purchasing a second UMC. There was a time when the HPWC cost quite a bit more than a UMC, but now the cost difference is minimal. So rather than buy a second UMC, people are buying and installing an HPWC. There's value in not having to constantly pack and unpack the UMC that you'd like to keep in the car, and value to always having one in the car, just to be safe.

That may be the case for anyone outside of California just like the CHAdeMO adapter. I have never felt the need to carry the UMC around. I was under the impression that most people don't have HPWC. It is a sweet looking EVSE though.

 

[jerry33]

OK - so I CAN start charging whenever I wish, and at a rate I wish. Can I also turn off the charging just before the rates spike?

Not automatically. You can turn it off with the App, you can install some kind of timer, or you can charge fast enough that it's always done before TOU is over.

 

[jerry33]

That may be the case for anyone outside of California just like the CHAdeMO adapter. I have never felt the need to carry the UMC around. I was under the impression that most people don't have HPWC. It is a sweet looking EVSE though.

I always carry the UMC on trips. Places like B&Bs are more likely to have a 14-50 than an HPWC and RV parks will only have 14-50s. I've never bothered with the CHAdeMO.

 

[CuriousG]

I always carry the UMC on trips. Places like B&Bs are more likely to have a 14-50 than an HPWC and RV parks will only have 14-50s. I've never bothered with the CHAdeMO.

Well with only what appears to be 11 chargers in all of Texas with the 12th under construction, I can see why given the size of the state. I guess not everything is bigger in Texas (Superchargers).

 

[hill]

To the OP, you're really jumping the gun here. Why not wait until the charging specifications for Model 3 are announced?

Probably for the same reason the model x onboard question threads drew such large numbers. Evan as the reveal came out that it had a 48 amp onboard setup - it was discovered in the configuration menu - there was a 75 amp available too. Yet back & forth & back again, the threads continued to get beat to death. That the very reason I'd posed a thread, "what amperage onboard charger to you hope to see".

.

 

[Snow Drift]

From Tesla Wiki
Q: Why should I buy a High Power Wall Connector (HPWC) - Tesla Motors Wiki

Q: Why should I buy a High Power Wall Connector (HPWC)
From Tesla Motors Wiki

Is it better to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet or an HPWC in my garage? What are the differences?

Answer
Thanks to @redacted on the Tesla Motors forum

• Nicer packaging than UMC
• Only $550 more than a UMC
• Safer than a UMC (at least, it's unlikely to become partially unplugged. I don't think there's really a UMC safety issue in many cases).
• More convenient than packing and unpacking a UMC if you're really cheap. And safer if you're packing and unpacking all the time (I could see a plug or outlet wearing).
• Better looking than a dangling UMC. Also, your electrical installer presumably won't install the thing upside down as he did with my neighbor's 14-50 outlet.
• Twice as fast as a UMC (possibly, unless you run it at 40 amps). Why is that important? Because if you keep the charge low and want extra miles to do that long trip, you can get it done faster. NOTE: you will need dual chargers in your car to use more than 40A.
• In the old, pre-5.9 days, you warmed your battery by charging the car. The heater can draw a lot of amps, so your car would spend most of its energy warming the battery rather than charging. An HPWC will heat the battery more quickly.
• The awesome factor: "I have a 20 kW charger."

But others have a different view:

I don't think the HPWC is a good investment and i'm a high mileage driver at an average of 100 miles a day. I've got the NEMA 14-50 and my car is already charged before I go to sleep at night and I get home around 7pm. More thoughts here:http://teslaliving.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/charger-confusion/
If you may arrive home at a low charge and need to go out again soon after, the HPWC is a good idea. Also, where we are there's a government rebate for its installation but not one for the 14-50's. The HPWC was therefore a good, almost-paid-for choice.

 

[Bimbels]

Lots of answers, thanks folks. The reason I wanted the wall charger is that I assume the car will come with one "cord" (I have been assuming it is the Mobile Connector) but it seems silly to be yanking the thing out of the wall every day and throwing it in the trunk. I could leave it in the garage, but then if am somewhere with an ordinary plug and I need to charge the car, that won't be possible, right? Given that the Mobile Connector is $650 I feel like I'd rather have a permanent wall connector in my garage and get some tax credit for it (assuming I am eligible, which I should be). To be clear, there is no way to use a Tesla HPWC on a "normal" electric car, right?

Honestly, probably none of this will be a problem but I do have a friend with a Volt already, so it could happen. He plugged into my normal outlet and got the usual .002 miles of range per year or whatever.

No, a tesla HPWC will only work with a Tesla.

While it would be convenient to have something that lives in the garage, we have had zero problems using the UMC solely and throwing it back in the trunk. Yes, it needs to live in the car if you need to plug in to any charger/plug other than a SC. Depending on your driving habits, you won't necessarily charging every single night - but even if you are, it's still totally fine. I would say try it out and if you find it cumbersome, then get a wall charger.

We don't have a garage, only a single parking space outside our back door. Our plug is mounted onto our shed - it just seemed overkill to install a HPWC or any other wall charger. But after using it for a while, we've found it to be totally fine. Even if we had a garage, I'm not sure we'd put one in. We would install a second plug, however, if we had a place to park our (future) 2 teslas.

 

[Snow Drift]

Are there any safety benefits (outside of supporting the shorter cord) of the HPWC over 14-50 w/ UMC? Does the HPWC monitor for anomalies? Or home owners insurance benefits of HPWC over UMC?

 

[CuriousG]

From Tesla Wiki
Q: Why should I buy a High Power Wall Connector (HPWC) - Tesla Motors Wiki

That FAQ is outdated.

Tesla — Wall Connector
Tesla — Mobile Connector Bundle

There is only $100 difference between the two now ($750 vs $650). If you need your UMC when you travel, may as well get the HPWC to future proof your setup, assuming your panel can handle it. This may also help people that have a shorter window for Time of Use (TOU) from their electric company, assuming you have dual chargers.

 

[pedriscoll]

Hope I'm in the right place for this question---Summon Mode.
Looks like the car can enter a garage and leave a garage using its sensors. But - I thought one would want to plug in the car in the garage so you could leave with a full charge. Is there some magical snake that plugs in the car in tight quarters, and unplugs when the car is summoned? How does summon and recharge fit?

No self attaching/detaching connector yet. Might be a future option.

 

[TexasEV]

That FAQ is outdated.

Tesla — Wall Connector
Tesla — Mobile Connector Bundle

There is only $100 difference between the two now ($750 vs $650). If you need your UMC when you travel, may as well get the HPWC to future proof your setup, assuming your panel can handle it. This may also help people that have a shorter window for Time of Use (TOU) from their electric company, assuming you have dual chargers.

That comparison is misleading because the UMC comes with the car. It's only $650 if you buy a second one. Most people who use UMC keep it plugged in and hanging in the garage, and only take it with them on out of town trips when they may plug in away from home.

 

[CuriousG]

That comparison is misleading because the UMC comes with the car. It's only $650 if you buy a second one. Most people who use UMC keep it plugged in and hanging in the garage, and only take it with them on out of town trips when they may plug in away from home.

That was my point "if you need your UMC when you travel". I just assumed that meant to everybody that if you need another UMC for travel purposed, get HPWC instead for your home.

I guess I should revise it to say if you're lazy to take it off the wall every time you travel, get HPWC instead of another UMC.

 

[jgs]

The reason I wanted the wall charger is that I assume the car will come with one "cord" (I have been assuming it is the Mobile Connector) but it seems silly to be yanking the thing out of the wall every day and throwing it in the trunk. I could leave it in the garage, but then if am somewhere with an ordinary plug and I need to charge the car, that won't be possible, right?

Unless your needs are kind of unusual you won't be yanking it out of the wall every day. The experience of almost every S owner I've seen comment is that they worry about this before delivery (I did) but after delivery they find they almost never use the UMC other than in the comfort of their own garage. That has been my own experience in a year of ownership -- I do pull the UMC off the wall and take it with me on road trips. So far I've used it on a road trip exactly once, and that time it was optional, I could have done without. Remember that you can charge at a public J1772 station without the UMC, all you need is the little adapter. And remember you can always buy a second UMC later if you find you want it after driving your car for a month or two.

Also, note that you can get the EVSE tax benefit for installing a NEMA 14-50. (But free tax advice on the Internet is no substitute for an actual accountant's input or running the numbers yourself!)

 

[diamond.g]

Has Tesla improved the reliability of the UMC? I recall seeing threads where folks have had to get them replaced. Since I have to charge outside I figure the HPWC (or a J1772 EVSE) would be more reliable since you are not constantly plugging and unplugging it.

 

[ABCCBA]

We have a Tesla HPWC on a 100A circuit. We also have a 14-50 outlet on a 50A circuit. With the 14-50, we can charge just about any EV and the HPWC covers the Tesla(s). I put both close to the panel to avoid the extra costs of long runs of large current carrying conductors.

 

[AndreSF]

We have a Tesla HPWC on a 100A circuit. We also have a 14-50 outlet on a 50A circuit. With the 14-50, we can charge just about any EV and the HPWC covers the Tesla(s). I put both close to the panel to avoid the extra costs of long runs of large current carrying conductors.

Just curious, how can you charge "just about any EV" with 14-50 outlet? If you had J1772 EVSE, I can understand that...

 

[Xminus6]

The sense I get from having read threads on TMC for the last 18 months or so is that a lot of Model S owners have sprung for the HPWC. Whether it is a majority or not I can't say, but there are certainly a lot of HPWCs installed. See my response to the below for one of the reasons.




While the above is true, the ability to charge quickly is not the only reason to install the HPWC.

Assuming you want to always have the UMC with you in the car, just to be safe, to charge with it at home you will constantly be packing it up and unpacking it. Or you'll wind up purchasing a second UMC. There was a time when the HPWC cost quite a bit more than a UMC, but now the cost difference is minimal. So rather than buy a second UMC, people are buying and installing an HPWC. There's value in not having to constantly pack and unpack the UMC that you'd like to keep in the car, and value to always having one in the car, just to be safe.

The HPWC may not be for everyone, and if the OP is interested in charging non-Tesla vehicles, a different manufacturer's charger is almost certainly a better alternative, since the HPWC would not provide that option. I just wanted to point out some of the reasons other than charging speed that people opt for the HPWC.

That's a fair point. My situation is affected by the fact that we've always owned one other non-Tesla EV at the same time. So an EVSE for only one manufacturer never made sense for us. That said, my 40 amp Leviton has worked just fine and I've never felt like I was waiting on my car. But we lived a pretty well-scheduled life.