Model 3 releases: "you don't even need an instrument cluster"
Model S releases with yoke: "the instrument cluster must be seen at all times"
Model S releases with yoke: "the instrument cluster must be seen at all times"
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Honest review of the wheel
- Thread starter serendipitous
- Start date
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
We’ve had an aftermarket yoke installed on our 3 (oem tesla wheel converted) withh same stalks and while I enjoy it quite a bit, the wife has trouble in parking spaces or tighter curb turns in a drivethru. So much so that she’s managed to curb the passenger rear wheel 2x now in a month Vs maybe once in 3 yrs. She finds focusing on the yoke and turning properly is not allowing her to put attention to where the car is vs traditional wheel and automatic reactions.
Her comment ‘the wheel was invented millions of years ago…it just works. Don’t try to reinvent it. Leave the MY alone please.’
We have an MYP coming in a week and I was contemplating the yoke as well but will forgo it given her comfort level lol.
Her comment ‘the wheel was invented millions of years ago…it just works. Don’t try to reinvent it. Leave the MY alone please.’
We have an MYP coming in a week and I was contemplating the yoke as well but will forgo it given her comfort level lol.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
TigerNinety
Member
I just hope it didn’t take you all 27 years to figure it out!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
No, but I’ll admit it took me longer than it should have! She has more common sense than pretty much anyone I know and when it comes to things like this and life in general she’s almost always right.I just hope it didn’t take you all 27 years to figure it out!
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
When I first met my wife she had never driven a stick. I gradually taught her, took a couple years. On a 440ci magnum Road Runner with a sport clutch no less. She wasn’t thrilled about it. Over the years she became better at the stick than me and refused to buy a car with an automatic.
She also only curbed her wheels once in 40 years.
She also only curbed her wheels once in 40 years.
As a yoke owner: is it better than round wheel? No. (There is a reason that Randy Probst had it removed during the pikes Peak run, and replaced with a proper round wheel).
Is it bad enough where I feel I want to have it replaced with one of the round aftermarket wheels? No.
Does it actually give me somewhat of a better feel when using it to drive straight on the highway? Yes.
Is the inability to activate the horn via the airbag a dumb move? Yes.
Are turn signal buttons better then a simple stalk under all conditions/all positions of the yoke? No.
Is it bad enough where I feel I want to have it replaced with one of the round aftermarket wheels? No.
Does it actually give me somewhat of a better feel when using it to drive straight on the highway? Yes.
Is the inability to activate the horn via the airbag a dumb move? Yes.
Are turn signal buttons better then a simple stalk under all conditions/all positions of the yoke? No.
In normal driving on the freeway the yoke isn't an issue. She puts our 3 easily in the garage and takes it out with no issues. When I took delivery of the car, Tesla delivered it and put it in the garage as it was raining.
The main point is if it takes THAT much adjustment for no real benefit, why do it? My wife couldn't understand why I complained about it so much given all the things I've driven, operated or piloted.Maybe there was 50 years ago but nothing that sticks out. I've flow so many different aircraft I've lost count. Same for cars and motorcycles. I grew up operating bulldozers, skid loaders, backhoes, 6 and 8 wheel ATVs with skid steering similar to the bulldozers, tractors where I had to use independent braking of each rear wheel to act as either a limited slip differential or to turn it more tightly, hovercraft, hydrofoils, gas turbine powered cigarette hull racing boats, jet skis and more. I can, and will, adapt where it makes senes or actually has some tangible benefit.
I can't recall when I've seen such a mismatch for the controls and the vehicle. If there was some amazing improvement by going to the yoke, I could see it but there isn't one. This is a total cluster of an implementation and not something that can easily be fixed by a software update like some of their other stuff. Everyone has to realize how stupid it was when they didn't even setup the early yokes to EVER be able to honk the horn by pressing in the center.
If you spend most of your time on a highway, or not doing tight turns, it isn't going to be much of an issue (yoke or lack of stalks). Last thing I want to think about in an emergency situation is the controls. I want to be able to do everything by muscle memory.
The only control I need in an emergency is the horn. And I think the placement is better. Often I see something I’m concerned about and get ready with the horn. Much easier and safer to keep my hand in it’s normal driving position and just have my thumb ready than keep my whole hand on the airbag.
I rarely EVER flip the blinker in the middle of a turn. I do it before I turn. I love the Auto Pilot on a thumbwheel.
It’s all logical. Different, but logical.
Yes, it takes some adjustment. No big deal.
Don't want to pick apart your post too much as seem to be a true believer in the yoke.
As for the horn button, I totally disagree. Why move a very important control to someplace almost no other vehicle uses, and it is almost impossible to hit in an emergency unless you are already "covering" it. AND you can only cover it easily with your hand if the wheel is pretty much straight ahead. I assume you never been turning the wheel at all and had to hit the horn... No to mention if you have small hands, it is going to be quite a reach. It isn't like the made it a bigger so it could be hit in an emergency even easier. Your accuracy breaks down when you are under more lead. It is human nature. Trying finding that little tiny button in a high stress situation when you AREN'T covering it. A change with no benefit and a lot of disadvantages.
Let's talk about the idiotic gear shifter. I am sure some of you on this list have had a German car, or possibly others, where reverse was opposite of first gear. Their were two very common reasons (and one of them applies to electric cars). One is usually first wasn't used other than to get the car in motion and from then on you'd mostly be in the higher gears unless you came to a stop. Then the useful one is if you happened to get stuck in a situation where you needed to rock the car backwards and forwards.
Try rocking the S if you are stuck without looking at the dash and focusing on it, when instead you should be looking outside the car. There is almost no primary control in the car that you should have to look to actuate. A gearshift is a primary control. I can easily tap the stalk forward and reverse without looking at it. Same with my other cars. Not easily going to happen with the S. This was a totally illogical, stupid and dangerous (in some situations) placement of the gearshift. Again for absolutely NO benefit and a lot of disadvantages.
Even the things were they improved things, they still did it half @$$ed. Why do I have to go into the menu to adjust the following distance. You have the same button as the 3/Y and a simple right or left push can adjust my following distance. Nope, somehow we couldn't figure that out on the S. So while I can set TACC/APP at the same time with one push, why can't I decide the behavior as well when I do something like correct the steering. It kills AP and TACC. With the 3, if AP is going and I change lanes, TACC stays engaged. Should be simple to adjust the behavior to what I want.
Anyway I am counting down the days until I get rid of my yoke. I'll still be stuck with the stupid gearshift controls and some other suboptimal things Tesla did where they had an option to get it right but didn't.
There is obviously enough people who don't like the yoke that several companies make aftermarket wheels to ditch it. Given the low volume of the S/X, there clearly are enough unhappy users with it that it isn't merely noise or grumpy people on a forum. I really like so many other aspects of the car. The yoke has been very polarizing for me. I could have loved, or at least liked it, if they put more thought into it. We all got short changed even if you like the yoke. I think if the yoke was the best thing ever, Randy Probst would have used it on his PIke's Peak run where he actually had to encounter tight turns in the course of his run. At least he didn't have to fumble with the drive selector.
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
I am looking forward to that day you get rid of your yoke more than you... Please let it be soon.
I don’t care what other cars do.
You would probably would hate when they moved from a crank in front to start the car to a button on the dash.
I can see it now, “I keep walking out in front of the car and grab the crank that’s not there, everyone else has a crank in front. Now I need to worry about the battery. Life was so simple with just a crank.”
I am not a Luddite. I spent 20 years of my career as an aeronautical engineer and worked in 2 major car companies, so I'm not clueless about design, testing and production of advanced technology. In aerospace we have a lot higher bar to hit before something makes it into production. Not that people still don't screw that up from time to time.
I am illustrating my concerns with precise examples of why it is not an improvement. You use a straw man argument to counter my logical points. I am a very strong proponent of technology when it actually improves things. I have seen very few concrete objective examples of where the yoke is superior (in its current form) to the wheel it replaced. Most of it has been, I adapted and now I like it. Or it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. These are more subjective, than objective.
I would be that even those people embracing the yoke, would like it a LOT better if they made some of the changes I've suggested. I think that would also move the needle a lot for those who dislike it too. Not necessarily a bad idea, just a crappy implementation. Maybe put for those who like the yoke, an implementation with a lot of room for improvement. Who hear wouldn't want variable ratio so you didn't have to turn the wheel multiple times to make a tight turn? All Tesla did was slap a yoke on top of their current steering system and figured out how to remove the stalks with as minimal thought or testing as possible. This was totally lazy from an engineering standpoint or Tesla was too cheap to get it right and new the Tesla Stans would still suck from Elon's teat and say how wonderful it is.
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
Agreed its rare to use the turn signal in middle of a turn. But a couple instances hit me occasionally, and remind me of the button annoyance. There are two shopping centers that I frequent, and as soon as I exit my end parking space, I immediately turn right and boom..the exit to the shopping center parking lot is there with a stop sign. So each time Im sitting there, my yoke is turned upside down. To activate my turn signal I have to look down at the wheel, kinda cock my head a bit to figure out which button to press to turn on the correct turn signal. True, while the car is sitting in place, I guess I could turn the wheel back to straight, activate the turn signal, then turn the yoke back to the right as I make the turn. But thats not the natural way I usually exit these shopping centers. Either way, Critical? no. Unnecessarily annoying? Yes.
Another is a traffic circle downtown that has two side by side lanes in the circle. There are occasions when I am in the circle and need to activate the signal to change lanes/exit the circle. The yoke is at a 90 degree angle from straight so I quickly look down to find the button and activate the correct one. Again, an unnecessary annoyance.
also, after 3 months I still find myself briely looking at the yoke even on a straight road, to press my turn signal button. It's only maybe 1/2 second glance, so not a huge deal. But still, a minor annoyance.
The horn button isnt within instant reach of my thumb. Would have been better to have had the horn button closest button to edge of yoke, but even then, would have been better to have just left horn activation by airbag intact. Certainly it could not have cost that much to have left that feature intact? Or was it due to some sort of component shortage that necessitated removing activation by airbag?
and was Elon telling the truth when he said "a firmware update will activate horn by airbag again", even though no one has confirmed any form of switch behind the airbag?
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
I agree 100% with these posts. Why ‘re-invent the wheel’ so to speak unless the new invention is superior in function? The yoke is one man’s eccentric hubris at creating a driverless car whereby a steering wheel and gear controls are redundant. Issue is level 5 autonomy is still quite a distance away and I’m the meantime, critical controls for vehicles have been pushed to the wayside.
I have a yoke in my new model 3 (oem wheel converted) and I can say it’s the best of both worlds. Fashion and function. All stalks for normal functions remain and the horn, signals, gear shifting is as it should be…logical and activated with subconscious thought while maneuvering in certain situations.
Even still…is the yoke superior? Absolutely not.
Parking is trickier, left turns into the inner lanes require 2 hands over one. 3 point turns? Adds more complexity. The only advantage I see is a slightly less cluttered front visibility but nothing substantial and subjectively more comfortable on highway driving for arm resting.
For those of you who love the yoke, I’d love to see how you feel once you are in one of those rock back and forth situations. I live in Toronto so similar weather to NE US and I can’t count how many seasonal winter snow scenarios involved some form of maneuvering out of a rough patch.
I have an MS LR on order for Nov to possibly replace my 3 but the more I drive my friends S yoke, the more I concur with DayTrippin’s logical assessment. Add to the fact my wife hates the yoke as the added off turning ratios are not good for her shoulder and arms at times. She complains it’s actually harder on the joint.
I have not rolled back and forth to get out of snow since owning AWD/4WD vehicles (1980's), always with snow tires (Audis, Jeeps, Teslas).
Oh and my Audis ware a sticks, I had many sticks. Try rocking a Stick back and forth, nobody complains about the perils of a stick.
You can easily do must sticks without looking. How long will it take you to master that with the refreshed S's controls? Go out into a new S and without looking, trying and find reverse and forward. Now actuate them quickly, as in changing direction, without ever looking at the screen. Now try that with stalks.
So much easier with the stalks. You don't need to grab the stalk in a specific place. Touch it pretty much anyway and move it up and down and you can engage either direction (assuming your speed is slow enough). My wife adapted to our Y in about a half our of driving from our other cars. One of which is a stick.
She lived in Europe for a lot of her life and only drove stick cars before coming to the US. Never had an issue with a stick as it is somewhat intuitive and more importantly, you can do it all very easily with muscle memory and some tactile feedback. The gates on the gear (for most transmissions) prevent you from moving in some direction where nothing is done.
There is nothing similar on the screen for gear changes to guide you were you need to go. You better get your finger in pretty much in just the right spot, and a very small one in general, to change direction. Try finding that in an emergency if you need to reverse quickly. The console backup isn't any better.
Tesla got way ahead of their skis and caught up in their own hubris regarding FSD. I was fairly skeptical about Elon before I bought a Tesla but appreciative of what he was trying to do.. I am even more sceptical after owning 3. The model Y and the radar removal really killed a lot of trust I had in the brand.
Guess you forgot what’s involved with a stick. It’s nothing to do with finding the gear. Push clutch, change gear, pop clutch will take a lot longer than swipe to reverse. Or use the buttons on the console.
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