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How best to contact Tesla about unacceptable changes in "v7" dashboard.
- Thread starter neroden
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- Model S User Interface
At the same time I think it's important to recognize that you don't need to experience a new UI to arrive at reasonable conclusions.
For instance, how will experiencing the lack of ambient temp output in 7.0 temper my criticism of the change? I just don't see two ways around it.
Khatsalano
Member
The final version will most likely look like the leaked pictures. I strongly agree that this is not good design.
The majority of 7.0 features are awesome, but the dashboard interface is just horrible beyond belief. We are losing so much information and the video-game display of cars around you just isn't necessary, or even that cool. I would like to see the following:
(1) Instantaneous energy meter arc with more tick marks, and integrated into the speedo display;
(2) Speedometer with a big arc like we have now, not the stupid little minute-hand inside the TACC icon as you accelerate (the TACC icon also disappears below certain speeds so this is useless as an arc);
(3) Outside temperature displayed on the main screen top row;
(4) Get rid of the clock app ... the only reason we even need it is to see the ambient temperature. That's just a poor design choice; and
(4) I want the speedometer to be center centered, not top centered. I get that it's closer to the eyes on the road condition and that it allows for more room to display the video-game cars. It's still ugly and Tesla doesn't do ugly ... right?
If someone at Tesla is so attached to the cars-around-you video game mode, then allow it as a half-screen app on the MAIN SCREEN (or a quarter screen split with a quarter trip screen). Kids would love that and so would noobie passengers. I'd put that on the bottom and would rather have on the dash:
Nav/Speedo/Trips or Media/Speedo/Trips
The flat design, actually, is highly usable and actually feels better to the touch when you use it. It's almost like you know you're pressing a fake button in our 6.2 now, but in the flat 7.0, you aren't expect any feel so it just feels right. The icons look really good too.
- K
The majority of 7.0 features are awesome, but the dashboard interface is just horrible beyond belief. We are losing so much information and the video-game display of cars around you just isn't necessary, or even that cool. I would like to see the following:
(1) Instantaneous energy meter arc with more tick marks, and integrated into the speedo display;
(2) Speedometer with a big arc like we have now, not the stupid little minute-hand inside the TACC icon as you accelerate (the TACC icon also disappears below certain speeds so this is useless as an arc);
(3) Outside temperature displayed on the main screen top row;
(4) Get rid of the clock app ... the only reason we even need it is to see the ambient temperature. That's just a poor design choice; and
(4) I want the speedometer to be center centered, not top centered. I get that it's closer to the eyes on the road condition and that it allows for more room to display the video-game cars. It's still ugly and Tesla doesn't do ugly ... right?
If someone at Tesla is so attached to the cars-around-you video game mode, then allow it as a half-screen app on the MAIN SCREEN (or a quarter screen split with a quarter trip screen). Kids would love that and so would noobie passengers. I'd put that on the bottom and would rather have on the dash:
Nav/Speedo/Trips or Media/Speedo/Trips
The flat design, actually, is highly usable and actually feels better to the touch when you use it. It's almost like you know you're pressing a fake button in our 6.2 now, but in the flat 7.0, you aren't expect any feel so it just feels right. The icons look really good too.
- K
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+1 If someone wants to dumb down the interface and remove important information (outside temp, decreased regen) then make it an option. In addition to Insane and Ludicrous mode they can add Oblivious. The information provided in the car view is useful, especially the "force field" as you get close to objects on a narrow road/bridge but I agree the current design looks like a video game. If they have to add a video game mode, at least give us the Peter Gunn music from Spy Hunter ;-)
I'm very curious, to those that don't like what they call "video game" aspect...
Where, and what type of information do you want to see about the driver assist stuff?
I always thought the dial style speedometer was a waste of space, just give me the current speed.
When using driver assist, I want to know what is around me. I want to know if the driver assist is active or not, if it "sees" both lane lines.
Perhaps even status of nearby cars. For example, whether a car is "locked onto" by the sensors. If the distance is closing or not, etc..
Someday when we can replace side mirrors with cameras this would be a good place for those views as well.
All of that, IMO, seems critical information for the driver, so where do you put it if you are filling the screen with 50 year old analog dials?
I find the energy use irrelevant, much like the old tachometers. I know some like that stuff, but IMO there's much more valuable info.
Where, and what type of information do you want to see about the driver assist stuff?
I always thought the dial style speedometer was a waste of space, just give me the current speed.
When using driver assist, I want to know what is around me. I want to know if the driver assist is active or not, if it "sees" both lane lines.
Perhaps even status of nearby cars. For example, whether a car is "locked onto" by the sensors. If the distance is closing or not, etc..
Someday when we can replace side mirrors with cameras this would be a good place for those views as well.
All of that, IMO, seems critical information for the driver, so where do you put it if you are filling the screen with 50 year old analog dials?
I find the energy use irrelevant, much like the old tachometers. I know some like that stuff, but IMO there's much more valuable info.
You mean the driver assist stuff my car doesn't have? I don't really need to see any of that.
The center display in the old design as not a "50 year old analog dial". It was a brilliantly designed display that clear shows: speed, battery range remaining, power currently being used/regened, cruise control settings, power limits that may affect regen braking, and the current speed limit warning. It did all that while be aesthetically pleasing.
In the new design that information is scattered about, harder to read, or requires using 1 of the 2 custom side locations.
I don't actually have a problem with the top down car display in principle. But it should not take the entire center of the screen, pushing aside other more important (to many people) information. It would have been fine in one of the 2 option side locations.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Pretty much my feelings exactly. They've taken a well-designed gauge and scattered its components all over the screen. I'm not too excited to have to use one of my side locations to get information that should be front and center, especially when it's being displaced for a diagram that serves no purpose (to my vehicle without Autopilot). If we're lucky, I suppose, perhaps classic vehicles will have the option to retain the old layout.
Part of the reasons that sold me on LCDs-as-instrument-clusters during my test drive was that superbly-designed gauge. Shame to see it tossed.
One thing that a dial or tape display gives is rate of change information. A simple number incrementing isn't as effective. I find that useful on the speedometer so that i can smoothly handle the accelerator when I near my target speed. Speed and energy tapes would allow much of the functionality we're talking about, including markers for cruise setting and energy limits, while freeing up the center of the screen for other use but many don't like them. I'm personally not a big fan of tape displays either.
Soolim
Member
An investor friend confided that it is simply to annoy those that don't have the AP, so that they would upgrade to new car, and for Tesla to meet the quarterly sales goal.:tongue: He also said that Tesla knows best, we just have to accept whatever is offered in ALL aspect of the car design. You can fill in the examples .....
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Even if that were the case, at this point I'm not sure I'd buy another Model S without the P85+ suspension. AFAIK, it's really no longer available, even in the P85D/P90DL trims.
Soolim
Member
Very likely, you need to wait for the new roadster, if suspension / road handling is the magic you are looking for.:wink:
Kidding aside, could there be an aftermarket suspension upgrade kit (in the near future) like what they do for other sportier car? I sorely missed my Porsche.
What I want to see is:
1. Power metre
2. Since last charge and trip numbers.
It's okay if they change the layout, but the information needs to be there and be in a format that's usable.
I don't use the speedometer blue dial, that could go, but I look at the power metre way more than I look at the speedometer (10 to 1 at least). It's an essential item for me.
Understand I don't care so much about the layout (although flat is ugly, reminds me of a Speak and Spell) but removing the power meter and the information currently shown on the trip and since last charge display pretty much ruins the car (One reason I didn't purchase another Prius was because they took away the useful information). The beta layout shows the power metre off to the side, but the graduation is so coarse it's useless to drive by. And the energy graph is useless because it's not real time. I wouldn't mind a totally vertical power metre--that would be kind of cool, but the beta version appears to be unusable.
Khatsalano
Member
Z, you make good points and I'll just address one of them. I like the speedometer both as an instantaneous numeric readout AND as an arc. Arcs have the ability to convey percentage/proportion, rates of change, and rates of rates of change (jerk) that an instantaneous numeric display cannot. While most drivers may not care, those who prefer precision, would care. This data allows me to actually calibrate my mental picture of speed and allows me to drive smoother than otherwise. And I have a feeling, Tesla values precision as a design goal.
- K
I completely agree with that. Hopefully there is already, or will be, a setting to allow cars without the AP software a better visual display.
Let's assume for now, that you did have the AP sensors.
I argue, that the 6.x display simply doesn't allow for far more important information. Heck, even the blind spot indicator in 6.x is crowded out by the giant dial.
As for the other posters comment on rate of change, when I am accelerating I'm watching the road, not the speedometer. Sure, I glance down to see a snapshot, however I don't sit and watch to see how fast the dial s spinning.
Until now, it hasn't been a big deal as there was nothing else more important that was missing. For those with AP, there is far more valuable information.
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Z, you make good points and I'll just address one of them. I like the speedometer both as an instantaneous numeric readout AND as an arc. Arcs have the ability to convey percentage/proportion, rates of change, and rates of rates of change (jerk) that an instantaneous numeric display cannot. While most drivers may not care, those who prefer precision, would care. This data allows me to actually calibrate my mental picture of speed and allows me to drive smoother than otherwise. And I have a feeling, Tesla values precision as a design goal.
- K
I completely get that it gives a very quick impression of percentages. Arcs are wonderful at that.
I'm very curious about the idea that an arc allows for smoother driving than a digital number. I've never tested that. I suppose Tesla could see how smooth the speed is of all beta testers vs everyone else and compare?
As for precision, I find a specific mph number is more precise than an arc. Unless the arc display also has the number, in which case I would still be using the number for precision.
I do agree with you, Tesla likes precision, which may be part of the reason for the change?
harry
Member
Now, THAT is my suspicion -- that Tesla is beginning to focus on the Model 3 and selling to consumers who Tesla thinks can't deal with much information. If true, it's kind of patronizing, and shows a lack of confidence in Tesla's ability to bring people to a more enlightened approach.
It's the only explanation that I can give credence to in the elimination of so much useful - even vital -- information and the substitution of a very low-information giant car graphic.
My only hope is that there will be a separate version for those of us with pre-AP cars.
NigelM
Recovering Member
^This.
And hard to believe that so many smart people are posting all the same complaints all over again. Please folks, you're clever enough to have realized by now that there are different versions in development testing, and it's obviously not final yet, and there is zero doubt that Tesla knows that some people feel strongly about it.
jcoverton
Member
Most of the comments about V.7 have to do with the information displayed on the DI. This is more about information presentation rather than about user interaction. In general, information only has value if it changes behavior that in turn impacts something meaningful. For example if displaying the KW arc helps someone drive better in snow and ice conditions because they manage the throttle pedal better and have less chance of slipping then instant KW is valuable information. That value is letting the driver control the level of torque applied during acceleration or regeneration. If wheel torque could be displayed instead it would be better. If the driver could set a maximum torque range to match road conditions and let the car manage it then that would even be better. TM needs to build a display that is both easy to understand and provides information that allows users to drive better. If information on the display is only interesting but does not change behavior than it has no value and just takes up valuable pixels. If it changes behavior but does not change outcomes then it is still just taking up extra pixels. Truly great information systems provide meaningful information in a simple and quick to understand format. Cars used to have gauges which displayed manifold vacuum which was a proxy for engine efficiency. This was intended to help people drive more efficiently. Most people did not change driving because the information was deemed too technical. Vacuum gauges were relabeled to show an approximation of MPG to make their use more obvious. People who understood engines did not like the change. They failed to realize that even though the gauges no longer display actual vacuum numbers they were more useful to more people because they actually changed driving habits which help lower driving costs.
The current display is full of useful information but is complicated. My opinion of the V7 beta is that is designed to change our driving decisions from being focused on energy usage to be focused on the road and cars around us. As electric cars get better range and there are more places to charge, this is probably what we should be focused on if we want to get somewhere safely. I do think they are heading in the right direction. My wife is hesitant to drive our MS because she think it is too complicated even though I tell her, it has two pedal and a steering wheel. I believe not understanding the information on the display may be contributing to her believing that the car is too complicated.
I on the other hand am a person who loves to know things. I have always bought cars with lots of gauges. I like GM vehicles because they still put numbers on their gauges. I love all the information provided in V6.2. I would love even more information like battery voltage and temperature. This would allow me to start to understand their impact on maximum acceleration. That said, my biggest worry about driving my new MS is that I will be watching the display when I should be watching the road. Maybe we should have a toggle in the settings that changes the display to only show vehicle speed. That would make my wife happy and me a safer driver.
The current display is full of useful information but is complicated. My opinion of the V7 beta is that is designed to change our driving decisions from being focused on energy usage to be focused on the road and cars around us. As electric cars get better range and there are more places to charge, this is probably what we should be focused on if we want to get somewhere safely. I do think they are heading in the right direction. My wife is hesitant to drive our MS because she think it is too complicated even though I tell her, it has two pedal and a steering wheel. I believe not understanding the information on the display may be contributing to her believing that the car is too complicated.
I on the other hand am a person who loves to know things. I have always bought cars with lots of gauges. I like GM vehicles because they still put numbers on their gauges. I love all the information provided in V6.2. I would love even more information like battery voltage and temperature. This would allow me to start to understand their impact on maximum acceleration. That said, my biggest worry about driving my new MS is that I will be watching the display when I should be watching the road. Maybe we should have a toggle in the settings that changes the display to only show vehicle speed. That would make my wife happy and me a safer driver.
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