How good (or bad) is the old Mobileye AP

[gaswalla]

I predict that AP2 will soon be orphaned as AP3 hardware is released in a few months. Then AP2 vs AP1 will really be moot as they both seem to be functionally the same. The current appeal for AP2 is the potential for it be far superior to AP1. Anticipate that AP2 folks will be treated similarly as AP1 folks were when AP2 came out - only difference is that AP3 hardware will be an upgrade option for lots of $$$.

 

[dark cloud]

I just drove about 400 miles with AP1 - today. It is wonderful in stop-and-go, as well as in light traffic.

- It maxes out at 90mph, which only works on very straight freeways anyway.
- Once there are bends, it seems to be limited by G-Force, or drifts out of the lane. It doesn't slow down for bends.
.

Disagree. As @kavyboy said earlier, and I've experienced, AP1 does indeed slow down for bends.

Mine does slow down on tight corners, but I was thinking that is because most tight bends I am going through there is a meridian or guardrail or rock cliff on the outside of the corner, and it is were just road with a flat dirt shoulder it would not? I am not sure.

 

[kavyboy]

Mine does slow down on tight corners, but I was thinking that is because most tight bends I am going through there is a meridian or guardrail or rock cliff on the outside of the corner, and it is were just road with a flat dirt shoulder it would not? I am not sure.

Nope, it's not guardrails in all cases. Have a look at the street view from the map I posted earlier: Google Maps. In that case, not only are there no guardrails or lines painted on the road anywhere as the turn starts, but AP1 does not go straight onto the side road. It slows and follows the curve of the main road.

 

[aaron0k]

Recently drove an AP2 loaner for a week (vs my 2015/AP1). I thought they were fairly comparable in lane keeping/TACC

However the steering wheel nags on AP2 were 10x more frequent; even with my hand firmly on the wheel. Annoying to the point I'd rather not babysit nags and just use TACC.

It seems the wheel on the brand new 2018 loaner had a lot more 'play/wiggle' and required significantly more torque to register.

Both were set to 'comfort' assist.

(and AP1 does slow down on curves)

 

[suraj1194]

nticipate that AP2 folks will be treated similarly as AP1 folks were when AP2 came out - only difference is that AP3 hardware will be an upgrade option for lots of $$$.

AP2 was released in late 2016. My AP1 car from late summer 2016 has continued to receive AP updates that have made it substantially better than what it was 2.5 years ago. All kinds of erratic behavior has gone away - truck lust, exit offramp lust, hard acceleration to preset speed when the car in front moves out of lane, fast cornering and more. As has been mentioned by others, AP1 feels like a person driving the car, in general. That's not how it felt 2 years ago.

Feature-wise, sure it's constrained by the limits of what MobileEye EyeQ3 supports technically. The primary missing feature that I recall is traffic light recognition. However, even if Tesla did add traffic light recognition (An EyeQ3 supported feature) I would not trust it because I do not trust the car to tell me it's ok to cross an intersection; the consequences of getting it wrong can be devastating, and I prefer to make that decision myself. Stopping on the basis of a car in front, or the stop sign is a fixed decision in comparison.

 

[George S. Bower]

Thx for all the replies.
It's interesting that no one has differentiated hardware 2.5
I was aware of the AP2 vs AP1 discussions of earlier days but I kind of expected people to be raving about 2.5 but it appears not so.

I was thinking a used Model 3's AP2.5 would be better than the old Mobileye system but now I wouldn't let that sway me from buying an older Model S (P version vs regular S I have now).

Then again if I step up to a P then I will lose a bit of range compared to my current S.

So I'm now back to what I've been doing=nothing. Is it really worth stepping up to a P model S. Meh I don't think so. My old Model S has been pretty reliable in the 28 months I have had it. It's a known quantity. There's really nothing wrong with it and the tires are near new.

There's nothing out there that really turns my crank right now. What I really need is a model Y. I wish Tesla had skipped Model 3 and just done Y to begin with.

At 70 and with a pretty lame back I'd like something with a seat that was more off the floor. ...like a Model X. Then again I'm not thrilled with having those troublesome rear doors and it would have to be a MX 100 kwh battery which are a bit out of my price range right now.

Also I finally know more about fixing my S now. I succesfully replaced my driver door handle with a salvage part. Plus I think I would do an MCU if I ever have to with Ingineer's services.

 

[aaron0k]

I was thinking a used Model 3's AP2.5 would be better than the old Mobileye system but now I wouldn't let that sway me ... with a pretty lame back I'd like something with a seat that was more off the floor.

I had a 3... for 3 months... then sold it and kept the S.

That said, I thought the seats in the 3 had much better back support and easier entry/exit vs. S/X.

 

[sandpiper]

I traded in a 2015 Model S w/AP1 in on a 2018 Model 3 with AP2

Here is how I'd break it down

TACC -> Win goes to AP1 for less false braking events.

Lane Steering in decent whether -> Slight win for AP2, but they're both pretty good

Lane Steering in bad weather -> Large win for AP2. It's pretty damn good at seeing the lines even when I have a hard time. It's pretty shocking really.

Steering Wheel Nag -> Not bad with a Model S. Pretty bad with a Model 3. This is because the torque sensor in a Model 3 simply isn't as good as the torque sensor in a Model S. Of course this is why all the "sleeping in a Tesla" videos of late are of a Model S.

Truck Lust -> AP1 had it the last time I used it, and AP2 doesn't have it. It's the tendency for the car to lose sight of the lines near a semi, and then get closer it (as it tries to re-acquire the line). I haven't heard any recent complaints about this with AP1 so maybe it's better now.

Summons -> Piece of crap on both. But, it's going to be updated soon for AP2 so I expect it to be a large win for AP2

NoA -> Piece of crap on AP2, but it will likely get better over the next 6 months. Feature doesn't exist on AP1.

Side/Blindspot Monitoring -> doesn't work on AP1. works okay on AP2 with the 360 degree visualization.

All in all AP2 is better, but I wouldn't say it's worth thousands more. Having a really good TACC system with very few false braking events makes AP1 pretty nice.

There are other differences between those two cars that should take precedence in terms of an actual decision unless AP is really important to you. If it is then I'd get the Model 3 as AP will get better in it over time, and you can upgrade the AP computer later on when that's released. With the Model S you're going to be limited by what it can currently do.

I agree on all counts. I’d give AP2 a win today... but it’s mild. Both suck from a nag perspective. I always drive hands on the wheel, and on trips I still end up pulling over/ putting it in park because the autopilot cuts me off.

 

[VT_EE]

@az rael
I would like the extra range as well. What do you think about the 18in wheels with Aero hubcaps versus the 19 in wheels ?
Personally I can't stand the look of the new Arrow hubcaps but if there really is a 10% degradation in range by going to the 19 inch wheels it's a tough decision.

Take the caps off and they look great. I like the look better than the 19 wheels.

 

[Electroman]

I have driven both. I don't see any difference between them. Except I believe AP2 has a slight edge on poor weather and poor lane markings. Both are solid when driven at the speed limit or slightly above.

 

[ZachShahan]

I've got 2 Tesla's on my radar.

a used Model 3 LR RWD w/ AP

or an older Model S P85 RWD w/ Mobileye AP

So I have a question for the owners of the old AP that ran the Mobileye platform:

How does it compare w/ the latest and greatest AP?

Obviously the new system must be better, lots more cameras etc. but what are the specifics?

I would assume the old Mobileye system would be OK on a well marked straight and open interstate. ....but maybe it's not so good around corners. I don't know.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thx,
George

We've had a 2015 Model S 85D for nearly 2 years. Today, that Autopilot suite is still quite awesome and nearly as good as it gets. Having driven a few Model 3s, the Autopilot 2 is noticeably better, but just a tad so, which is nice but not a big deal. However, as others have pointed out, with the newer hardware, Autopilot 2 will get better & better while Autopilot 1 will seem less and less adequate.

Both on the topic of Autopilot as well as other matters, I'd strongly suggest the Model 3. However, it's really just a matter of many personal preferences between the two options.

 

[suraj1194]

Here's an alternative perspective - each AP generation has a product lifecycle.
* AP1 was the primary system until ~Dec 2016 when AP2 came out.
* AP2 had a 2 year development ramp up time to match AP1.
* Since then, AP2.5 has been released. At some point AP3 will be out.
* When AP3 is out, AP2 will be in the position of AP1 now

Therefore, what does AP2 have today that guarantees long term validity as a platform as newer generations are available ? Even before AP2 matched AP1 in capability, AP2.5 hardware was released to augment AP2 capability, with even newer AP3 hardware in the works.

As an AP1 car owners, I would hesitate for this reason. I'm very glad I did not end up with an AP2 car in 2016 - I'd have had a car with a barely functional AP for 2 years while AP1 was stable throughout. Despite being an Enhanced AP, the AP2 suite doesn't have enough to warrant a move for me, and the long term potential remains something I'd rather wait and watch because AP2 is close to being superseded by an even newer generation hardware.

My own preference is to buy AP for what it is at the time of purchase, and not for future potential, because the development timelines and availability of newer generation hardware in future implies that the future potential may not pan out.

 

[Cheburashka]

I like the (mostly somewhat functioning) blind spot monitoring in AP2.. NoA is still pretty useless IMO and more of a novelty.

Even if summon will be able to find you in a parking lot on its own (highly unlikely), it'll still be more of a novelty like it is today. Still waiting on "Full-Self Driving Features".