How much more would you pay for a driver instrument cluster?

[Haxster]

Unless something changes, there is no 'OBD2' connector (at least with data). The current ones are just power and ground since that is all that is legally required. Go figure.

From the wiring diagram that I saw for a pre-refresh S, the CAN bus is on the OBD-II connector under the dash. Has this changed since then?

Seems pretty much essential for factory and service center diagnostics. I'd be surprised if it doesn't also provide a port to data that would be useful for an add-on instrument display.

 

[mrtian97]

can't make everybody happy, it's subjective for everyone

 

[Model 3]

Sure, there will be some resistance and griping initially from some people who don't like anything that's different from what they're accustomed to. But sometimes you have to lead people rather than just follow the status quo if you want to effect any change.

I do not mind changes that constitutes an actual improvement, but I do disagrees with changes for the sake of changes or changes where the improvements does not outweighs the disadvantages.

 

[Foxhound199]

I am definitely willing to wait and see, as I'm sure this has been thoughtfully designed and we just haven't experienced it yet. But if I were to assume the second screen was cut purely as a cost saving measure, I'd say it'd be worth about $1500 to me. I'd definitely get it before I considered any other interior upgrades.

 

[googlepeakoil]

It's not in your face, for crying out loud, it's in the middle of the car. And Tesla has taken the clear position for at least five years now that physical A/C and volume knobs are not made available: you control most of the car from the steering-wheel buttons and the touchscreen. You can argue about losing customers whenever Tesla needs to advertise or has production slack: at this point, despite five years of sales and increasing production capacity, Tesla sales are still constrained by manufacturing capacity.

Certainly a Tesla today is not for everyone: my wife, for example, preferred to have those physical buttons and chose a Cayenne over a Model X. But that's not affecting Tesla's financial well-being at this point: there's more than enough demand for their cars. It simply sounds like you don't like the Tesla user interface, and that's entirely OK... know thyself, and buy the car that makes you happy.

Elon said in the presentation that the driver is further forward. The pad also sticks out from the dash - so i'd say it's in your face more than most cars where the display is sunk into the dash - and i'd add also protects it from sun glare!
My issue with it is not the speed as such - but all the other driver information you're going to lose thats for the driver.
Engine power/regen, trip distances. What the cars AP is seeing. Where's all the "i can see a car / motorbike / lorry" stuff? Where's the engine / indicator warning lights? Where's the turn-by-turn navigation display. The music selection. "IF" the speed is in the top right corner everything else has to be further away to the side. Stands to reason.
I don't want a big instrument cluster. A little 2 inch high - 7 inch backlit LED behind in that black bar behind the wheel would be nice with some of the above info.
Other cars will either have an instrument cluster or tilt the centre screen to face the driver - or both. Elon said it wouldn't be a weird mobile. He's taking a massive leap and i think Joe public (not these people) are going to like some stuff - but then sit in it and go - where's the instruments and displays?

Model S sales haven't been a steady rise - they've had small quarterly dips. Every quarter (for about the last 8) they've come up with incentives to push demand. The last few being removing the S60's and stopping the Free SC for life - but giving you a few months notice to get in quick! They also give people $1000 discounts for referrals - and did discount in the 3rd Quarter. Elon put a stop to that only 3 days before the end of the quarter. They've also combatted slower sales by expanding into newer markets. The Middle East in the last quarter.
I don't believe for a second they're supply constrained. They've had flat Model S production for about 2 years. You don't think if demand was higher these last 2 years they could go above 1000-1200 Model S a week? They hit 600 a week after 6 months of production and we're about year 5 at Freemont

 

[googlepeakoil]

$0. Haven't had an instrument cluster behind the steering wheel for 16 years, so I don't envision the sudden need for one when I get my Model 3.

Have you been walking / riding a bicycle Actually most bikes have speed

I agree with the OP that Elon is likely to be surprised at how important an instrument cluster is to a lot of people.

A car without a dedicated instrument cluster feels like a cheap cost-cutting measure to me. Tesla is an aspirational brand and should not be taking a risk like this that will undermine this perception, especially on their most important car to date. I think that a very high percentage of Model 3 buyers would opt for an instrument cluster if it were offered as a $500-$1K option.

I am going to wait for the final reveal before deciding whether to keep my Model S or to go with a Model 3, but I am not holding my breath on this - Elon's recent tweets have been very clear - no display and no HUD. The only strand of hope left is the "It feels like a spaceship" comment from a year ago. Fingers are crossed...

When I get my Model 3 I want my co-workers to start salivating over it, I want them to ask me questions on how they can get in line and get one too. I want to send them to review sites that call the model 3 amazing and the car of the year. I don't want to have to defend why there isn't an info cluster, or why it looks like IKEA got the interior design contract. I don't want to hear from all the mainstream review sites out there about how it's weird there's no instrument cluster on this thing.

I sure don't want to catch an episode of Grand Tour next year where Jeremy Clarkson dings the car for a crappy interior, no useful driver info and how it's a good car DESPITE all the missing stuff. I want him to gush over every aspect of the car.

I'm not saying all my fears will come true, we haven't seen the inside- but yeah I'd pay extra for a decent interior, including some driver side info cluster. I hope there's some sort of meaningful interior upgrade that's option.

Tesla don't seem to do "drivers" cars. They don't allow you to turn off traction control like pretty much every other topend car will let you (see any Top Gear episode). So no wheelspins / donuts or anything "fun". The car can't get round that German racing course without overheating and easing back the throttle. And now - everything the driver can see is visible to ALL the other occupants. Elon's comment - well you don't look at the speed in a taxi !?!? Elon then under-sold the 3 with "if you want 2 screens buy a Model S / X" - as if you have to go to a $70,000 car to get 2 screens. $10,000 Chinese cars have an instrument cluster and central display. It's just a let down and a massive compromise.

 

[Spidy]

I would pay $5k for a proper interior. I wish Musk had thought a little harder and pitched this car at a $40k price way back when. $39,999 has a nice ring to it and still keeps it in the 30s.

If $35k means pinching so many pennies that we have to remove the dashboard, the car is too cheap.

Especially since Tesla does not seem to play the option game the same way.

German manufacturers in that price class would already charge you 2k for the safety system and another 2-3k on navigation and some other infotainment stuff on that screen.

I mean it is a noble gesture of Tesla to not play that option game, but if you are giving options with high take rates away then your base price has to go up otherwise you margins will suffer or if you don't want that this happens and you have to remove features everybody expects to have and probably wouldn't even consider a "feature". Not a good way to be competitive and that segment...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Personally, I think I would pay up to $10,000 for an instrument cluster.

Not that I'd want to, but I would check that box if it were available and if I wanted the car.

Realistically, an up to $2,500 option similar to Model S IC should be offered, but of course won't be.

A car without one sounds risky to me as well. We shall see when we see it.

 

[eisbock]

Personally, I think I would pay up to $10,000 for an instrument cluster.

Not that I'd want to, but I would check that box if it were available and if I wanted the car.

Realistically, an up to $2,500 option similar to Model S IC should be offered, but of course won't be.

A car without one sounds risky to me as well. We shall see when we see it.

I was saving that $10k for the bigger battery, but if I had to choose, I would go with the cluster tbh.

 

[BluestarE3]

Have you been walking / riding a bicycle Actually most bikes have speed

Nope, driving a Prius. And if you say, "Prius is a weirdmobile and those driving it would put up with anything", let me counter that, after almost a half century of driving, I find having instruments in the center of the dash no more unnatural or awkward than having them behind the steering wheel. As always, YMMV.

 

[Garlan Garner]

How much more would you pay for a driver instrument cluster? Nothing. I won't need it.

 

[Cloxxki]

I expected a normal (double) display in the $35K, so it's a bummer.
Then, I also expected the 15" to be built into the dash. Such an afterthoughty look.

To get the 15" to be tucked into a dash, ideally on a swivel of sorts, and the Model S style diplay behind the wheel, I'll pay $1000-1500. It's just how I want a car. I've been seeing Tesla vids for years, and I WANT WANT WANT the normal dash look and feel. It should not be a huge difference in cost.

 

[Spidy]

Can't the same fears be said when some cars eliminated such "normal" things as manual/standard transmissions, spare tires, front grilles, tailfins, wing vents, front bench seats, 8-track/cassette/CD decks, some physical/mechanical buttons in favor of touchscreens, or even gasoline engines? Yet, people are not running away from such vehicles in droves.

Sure, there will be some resistance and griping initially from some people who don't like anything that's different from what they're accustomed to. But sometimes you have to lead people rather than just follow the status quo if you want to effect any change. Is there risk associated with change? Sure, but there's also risk in NOT changing. If you don't take risks, you'll never improve. Time will tell if this particular design change will be accepted and succeed or not. If the vast majority of the Model 3 reservations convert to sales and new orders continue to come in at a rapid rate, its interior and user interface will become the new norm. If it flops, then Tesla will have to modify their interior/UI accordingly.

Anyone who can't accept what's shown after the final reveal or are concerned about what others might think of their future car should consider canceling their current reservation. No one should feel "forced" into buying something they don't like or about which they have to feel apologetic.

Regulations, safety etc, probably played a role in some of these.

Some I would say are just plain and simply better e.g. cassette<<<CD

Some were trade-offs like losing physical feedback on touch screens, but gaining a lot of flexibility

And many of these changes happened over time. Car manufacturers didn't just go like "sorry, no more manual". You can even today see that the US sometimes just gets automatic while the EU gets manual due to demand. Or how BMW now killed the station wagon in the US, because people just don't buy it. And they didn't throw out the cassette players right away, but instead offered cassette and CD for a long time until the cassette was really dead.

Removing the driver screen is that I really don't see the advantage apart from cost savings. It's really just removing something. I don't see how it's better.
To me this move is just to early. Yes, you can lead people somewhere, but then you really need to be able to make the point right then and there. And to me you can't do that until you offer full autonomy from the first day of ownership.Some people might want to lease the car 3 years and I honestly no so sure full autonomy will be here in that time or even legal in many places.

 

[BluestarE3]

I do not mind changes that constitutes an actual improvement, but I do disagrees with changes for the sake of changes or changes where the improvements does not outweighs the disadvantages.

There's the rub. Is it a visionary's hubris, an accountant's accommodation, an engineer's improvement or some combination of the above? We won't know which it will be until we get our hands on the actual product. Given the possibility that some people may not have the opportunity to test drive the car before they have to fish or cut bait, that's why I suggested that if you're at all squeamish about the UI, you may want to defer making a decision until you've had an opportunity to experience it yourself.

However, I think it's premature, with incomplete information available at this time, to dismiss it as a failure simply because it's not traditional. Perception based on cursory viewing/reading is not the same as utility based on actual usage. As an example, until people actually used the iPod wheel, they may not have appreciated the utility of its simple design in lieu of more traditional controls.

I think most people who have heard of Tesla are aware they push the envelope and expect them to do many things differently (after all, they're the only production car company that just makes sexy electric cars). If people are at least interested in this different car and car company, I don't think the lack of a traditional instrument cluster by itself will keep them from entering a Tesla store to at least check out the car that is getting all the buzz. After they've tried it, they can then decide if it's going to work for them or not.

 

[Model 3]

that's why I suggested that if you're at all squeamish about the UI, you may want to defer making a decision until you've had an opportunity to experience it yourself.

And that is my plan No finalization until I at least has got an good test drive to see how this works out for me.

I think most people who have heard of Tesla are aware they push the envelope and expect them to do many things differently (after all, they only make sexy electric cars). If they are at a interested in this different car and car company, I don't think the lack of a traditional instrument cluster by itself will keep them from entering a Tesla store to at least check out the car that is getting all the buzz. After they've tried it, they can then decide if it's going to work for them or not.

Well, making sexy cars it not anything new Making them electric is also not a new thing, but may be new to a lot of customers. But that change is an undoubted improvement over the ICE cars - as long as it got the range you need and a way to charge it fast when you are driving longer then your range. And this is the new changes that Tesla has done, and it is undoubted improvements over earlier BEV's. And why I do want this car.

They also removed most of the buttons in the car and replaced them with a big center screen. This is a change I'm less enthusiastic about, but the added flexibilities this add (and more) makes more improvements then disadvantages. So no problem with this change.

Then there is this removal of the IC in front of the driver... Until I have tested it in real life in that car, I do see NO improvements in this move, just disadvantages - except for the cost savings. And to me I do not (yet) see that the disadvantages with this solution to be worth whatever this should have added in the price of the car to have a small spartan/no frills IC or HUD or whatever in front of me as I drive the car. And as I do not (yet) see that AP would be worth the extra price it will demand, I have no plan on getting that, so I will actually be *driving* the car - on small windy one lane rural roads with missing lane-marks and frequent speed limit changes and lots of deers, elks and semis, not be a "taxi passenger".

 

[eisbock]

Removing the driver screen is that I really don't see the advantage apart from cost savings. It's really just removing something. I don't see how it's better.
To me this move is just to early. Yes, you can lead people somewhere, but then you really need to be able to make the point right then and there. And to me you can't do that until you offer full autonomy from the first day of ownership.Some people might want to lease the car 3 years and I honestly no so sure full autonomy will be here in that time or even legal in many places.

I guarantee Tesla will be the only carmaker removing this screen for the foreseeable future. The others will just laugh and continue on doing it this way because people like it more.

I'm at the point where I could get used to only one central screen, but it offers no advantages over a dash screen. None. For the people that somehow think it will, you should be able to turn off the dash and transfer all info to the central screen.

Tesla is prioritizing ease of manufacture over creating a compelling car and I don't think anybody likes that fact. Makes you feel like the car is not created just for you. It turns Tesla from the friendly idolized company that customizes cars to your liking and ships them to your doorstep into a faceless machine churning out as many bland Model 3s as fast as possible. And now they want to get us out the door in 5 minutes? Do they really have any interest in the customers as individuals? Especially with comments such as "you won't care".

I understand you can't go the personalized route as much with a cheaper car, but this is still a freakin' luxury-priced vehicle and Tesla is treating it like a cheap $15k utility. Problem is, it's priced at more than double that so Tesla will undoubtedly run into demand problems down the line. As built and priced, this is not a 500k/yr car. Maybe 200k. 300k max.

 

[jerry33]

I'm at the point where I could get used to only one central screen, but it offers no advantages over a dash screen. None.

It does offer one. Because it is further away (and assuming it's placed correctly), your eyes have to move less and refocus less when shifting from the road to the screen. Not quite a heads up display, but fairly close.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Better thread title:

How Many Different Ways Can We Word the Same Question, Even After Being Told We're Not Getting a Cluster or HUD?

 

[azaz]

i would pay $2k for a model S type LCD screen. would pay $750 for a simple HUD.

but i'm pretty convinced a HUD won't even be offered (even though most 35k cars offer them) cause of Tesla/Elon's hubris towards how quick FSD will be ready

 

[North75]

I guarantee Tesla will be the only carmaker removing this screen for the foreseeable future. The others will just laugh and continue on doing it this way because people like it more.

I'm at the point where I could get used to only one central screen, but it offers no advantages over a dash screen. None. For the people that somehow think it will, you should be able to turn off the dash and transfer all info to the central screen.

Tesla is prioritizing ease of manufacture over creating a compelling car and I don't think anybody likes that fact. Makes you feel like the car is not created just for you. It turns Tesla from the friendly idolized company that customizes cars to your liking and ships them to your doorstep into a faceless machine churning out as many bland Model 3s as fast as possible. And now they want to get us out the door in 5 minutes? Do they really have any interest in the customers as individuals? Especially with comments such as "you won't care".

I understand you can't go the personalized route as much with a cheaper car, but this is still a freakin' luxury-priced vehicle and Tesla is treating it like a cheap $15k utility. Problem is, it's priced at more than double that so Tesla will undoubtedly run into demand problems down the line. As built and priced, this is not a 500k/yr car. Maybe 200k. 300k max.

I guarantee Tesla will be the only carmaker removing this screen for the foreseeable future. The others will just laugh and continue on doing it this way because people like it more.

I'm at the point where I could get used to only one central screen, but it offers no advantages over a dash screen. None. For the people that somehow think it will, you should be able to turn off the dash and transfer all info to the central screen.


I understand you can't go the personalized route as much with a cheaper car, but this is still a freakin' luxury-priced vehicle and Tesla is treating it like a cheap $15k utility. Problem is, it's priced at more than double that so Tesla will undoubtedly run into demand problems down the line. As built and priced, this is not a 500k/yr car. Maybe 200k. 300k max.

I guarantee Tesla will be the only carmaker removing this screen for the foreseeable future. The others will just laugh and continue on doing it this way because people like it more.

I'm at the point where I could get used to only one central screen, but it offers no advantages over a dash screen. None. For the people that somehow think it will, you should be able to turn off the dash and transfer all info to the central screen.

Tesla is prioritizing ease of manufacture over creating a compelling car and I don't think anybody likes that fact. Makes you feel like the car is not created just for you. It turns Tesla from the friendly idolized company that customizes cars to your liking and ships them to your doorstep into a faceless machine churning out as many bland Model 3s as fast as possible. And now they want to get us out the door in 5 minutes? Do they really have any interest in the customers as individuals? Especially with comments such as "you won't care".

I understand you can't go the personalized route as much with a cheaper car, but this is still a freakin' luxury-priced vehicle and Tesla is treating it like a cheap $15k utility. Problem is, it's priced at more than double that so Tesla will undoubtedly run into demand problems down the line. As built and priced, this is not a 500k/yr car. Maybe 200k. 300k max.

The average sales price of a new car in the US is right around $35k. I'm not sure that would qualify as a "luxury-priced" vehicle. Premium maybe. I suspect Tesla wants it to be perceived as premium. Elon did state that it will be the nicest car you can get for $35k.

We will certainly see how the market responds in a few years, but I think you are overestimating the importance of the behind the wheel instrument panel.

People keep talking about this potentially being a weird mobile. I'm thinking just the opposite. I think this will redefine cool and/or high tech for cars. I mean it's got great looks, great performance, it drives itself, no gas, glass roof, huge touchscreen, etc.
What else is going to come close in the next few years for that price?