Hurricane Harvey fallout - Gas queues in Dallas - Where is my EV?

[Khan3]

As if I needed another reason to get my Model 3. Woke up this morning to long queues in Dallas. It appears that Texas and Louisiana account for the majority (or a significant portion) of US refining capacity, and production has been hit by Harvey. Since we're so close, it looks like we don't bother to stock up much since its a really quick drive to the refineries for supplies.

Fellow ICE owners waiting on their model 3 might want to stock up on gas, depending on how long this hit lasts, you may soon start seeing this too depending on how much stockpiling of gas reserves your city/state has

Hurry up Tesla!

 

[eSpiritIV]

Shell has publicly stated that the hurricane has had little impact on production. This is jus typical of any natural disaster that people stock up on food, water, gas when they dont want to venture out too much.

 

[TexasTeslaRacing]

I'm in North Dallas and the lines are 15-30 cars deep! Racetrac and Kroger are already out of gas. I had no idea it was this serious until a few hours ago. I told my co-workers that I "fill up" at home and never have to wait in lines. They are bit jealous today.

 

[voip-ninja]

1. It's pretty shallow to comment on "where's my EV" with 30+ people dead and people being without electricity or running water for days.

2. I always have 20+ gallons of fuel on hand for emergency situations along with generators to run household essentials, 10 days of stored drinking water and enough food to last for weeks... and I'm not even in an area that is typically subject to extreme weather.

3. The number of people who are caught flat footed and don't have enough water and food on hand to tough it out for a week never ceases to amaze me. They need our help, they need or compassion, and they need to have some common sense drilled into their heads that in an emergency it's not the government that's going to bail you out of a jam it's yourself and your friends/family/neighbors who will be there.

 

[bonnie]

1. It's pretty shallow to comment on "where's my EV" with 30+ people dead and people being without electricity or running water for days.

2. I always have 20+ gallons of fuel on hand for emergency situations along with generators to run household essentials, 10 days of stored drinking water and enough food to last for weeks... and I'm not even in an area that is typically subject to extreme weather.

3. The number of people who are caught flat footed and don't have enough water and food on hand to tough it out for a week never ceases to amaze me. They need our help, they need or compassion, and they need to have some common sense drilled into their heads that in an emergency it's not the government that's going to bail you out of a jam it's yourself and your friends/family/neighbors who will be there.

Seriously, you don't think people can care about the disaster and impact on human life & still post about EVs?

You could extrapolate your point and say it's a bit shallow for any of us to be here on a car forum, with all the real problems going on in the world today. Please give the OP a break. Gas shortages are a valid thing to talk about on an EV forum, imo. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about other things. As human beings, we are capable of caring about multiple things at the same time.

 

[voip-ninja]

Seriously, you don't think people can care about the disaster and impact on human life & still post about EVs?

You could extrapolate your point and say it's a bit shallow for any of us to be here on a car forum, with all the real problems going on in the world today. Please give the OP a break. Gas shortages are a valid thing to talk about on an EV forum, imo. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about other things. As human beings, we are capable of caring about multiple things at the same time.

Which is more likely that you will be without electricity to easily charge your EV or that you will be without fuel to operate your ICE?

I can easily store 20-30 gallons of fuel at any given time which is enough gas for me to get by for days or even a week or longer.

How will I be charging my EV if a storm knocks electrical out? I could trickle charge an EV with a pair of generators and after burning 2-3 gallons of gas in 4 hours perhaps restore 15 miles of range.

The reality is that ICE is actually better to have in a natural disaster situation than an EV.... and by a long ways too.

 

[Runt8]

As if I needed another reason to get my Model 3. Woke up this morning to long queues in Dallas. It appears that Texas and Louisiana account for the majority (or a significant portion) of US refining capacity, and production has been hit by Harvey. Since we're so close, it looks like we don't bother to stock up much since its a really quick drive to the refineries for supplies.

Fellow ICE owners waiting on their model 3 might want to stock up on gas, depending on how long this hit lasts, you may soon start seeing this too depending on how much stockpiling of gas reserves your city/state has

Hurry up Tesla!

View attachment 244862

As excited as I am for my M3, I would tend to think that electrical outages are more of a problem then gas shortages during an emergency.

 

[voip-ninja]

As excited as I am for my M3, I would tend to think that electrical outages are more of a problem then gas shortages during an emergency.

Give this man a cigar.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

As excited as I am for my M3, I would tend to think that electrical outages are more of a problem then gas shortages during an emergency.

Of course, if you had a solar/Powerwall setup, you could be getting your house somewhat back in order right now, since the clouds are gone. And you wouldn't care as much about the gas station lines, because your car would be "filling up" from the sun.

 

[Khan3]

@voip-ninja , Post wasn't meant to take away from the human suffering related to the hurricane, but to call attention to emergency related concerns between ICE vehicles and EV's.

Also your quote below seems to totally ignore - "SOLAR PANELS" !!!

With solar panels and an EV you could stay without grid "power" for years ... how many years could you keep that up with your gas horde?

Which is more likely that you will be without electricity to easily charge your EV or that The reality is that ICE is actually better to have in a natural disaster situation than an EV.... and by a long ways too.

 

[Khan3]

@ModelNforNerd my thoughts exactly

 

[voip-ninja]

@voip-ninja , Post wasn't meant to take away from the human suffering related to the hurricane, but to call attention to emergency related concerns between ICE vehicles and EV's.

Also your quote below seems to totally ignore - "SOLAR PANELS" !!!

With solar panels and an EV you could stay without grid "power" for years ... how many years could you keep that up with your gas horde?

I have solar panels. Do you understand that with a typical residential solar installation when the power is out your solar is also automatically shut down to prevent backfeeding the grid?

 

[voip-ninja]

Of course, if you had a solar/Powerwall setup, you could be getting your house somewhat back in order right now, since the clouds are gone. And you wouldn't care as much about the gas station lines, because your car would be "filling up" from the sun.

Your solar panels and powerwalls won't do anything but be shut down during a power outage unless you've taken the time and spent the significant amount of money to install a bypass panel and special rectifier that will continue to function when grid power is out.

 

[chronopc]

2. I always have 20+ gallons of fuel on hand for emergency situations along with generators to run household essentials, 10 days of stored drinking water and enough food to last for weeks... and I'm not even in an area that is typically subject to extreme weather.

Good idea. How and where do you store the fuel?

 

[Khan3]

Seems the shut down does happen automatically if your system is connected to grid. That said, I would definitely prefer to install the bypass panel/rectifier instead of storing inflammable liquids at the residence. Seems like a safer and better outcome?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Your solar panels and powerwalls won't do anything but be shut down during a power outage unless you've taken the time and spent the significant amount of money to install a bypass panel and special rectifier that will continue to function when grid power is out.

If you've taken the time to install the Powerwall, doesn't it typically isolate your house/system from the grid if there's no power coming in from outside?

Isn't that the whole point of a Net Metering system? To be able to live "off the grid"?


EDIT:

Maybe we should get this guy on here to let us know how he did it:
73-year-old Tesla Powerwall owner powers through South Australia’s state-wide blackout without even knowing

 

[larmor]

Your solar panels and powerwalls won't do anything but be shut down during a power outage unless you've taken the time and spent the significant amount of money to install a bypass panel and special rectifier that will continue to function when grid power is out.

Or install a small wind turbine as well-- wind is huge in Texas. Look if you spend the money for an off the grid solution, it is like (but not the same in cost) for keeping a 50 gallon tank to store gas. It just means you are well prepared for a natural disaster. The only difference b/w stockpiling gas vs. battery with solar/wind turbine is the cost, and the everyday utility. Storing gas/petrol is great for a once in a decade, or once in two years storm for cars and generators. The battery/wind/solar solution can be used every day, on non storm days.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Your solar panels and powerwalls won't do anything but be shut down during a power outage unless you've taken the time and spent the significant amount of money to install a bypass panel and special rectifier that will continue to function when grid power is out.

Well, that's been one of the past problems, but ultimately, if there are going to be lots of EVs then solar+battery will be cheaper, and therefore solar+battery+off/on grid will become the norm. Only net metering would be likely to keep people fully on-grid, and that's disappearing.

But long-term outages are another reason why long-range BEVs are so important: it's a fault-tolerance problem.

It should be the case that public chargers will come back up relatively quickly, since they are in commercial locations. And if commercial locations don't have power, far fewer people will be going to work, which will reduce vehicle miles traveled, which means that their fuel tanks will last longer

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Or install a small wind turbine as well-- wind is huge in Texas. Look if you spend the money for an off the grid solution, it is like (but not the same in cost) for keeping a 50 gallon tank to store gas. It just means you are well prepared for a natural disaster. The only difference b/w stockpiling gas vs. battery with solar/wind turbine is the cost, and the everyday utility. Storing gas/petrol is great for a once in a decade, or once in two years storm for cars and generators. The battery/wind/solar solution can be used every day, on non storm days.

Gas breaks down over time. So if it sits in storage for years, and you're not using it, it breaks down to the point of being just about useless, and still not that easy to get rid of (safely).

 

[ion_1]

Texas is a horrendous disaster, but a time for refection also.

Went through Sandy in NJ with floods, 1+ week no electricity and a horrendous fuel shortage (no power to pump, no fuel).
20 gallons of fuel was peanuts when running generators, the issue was getting enough fuel for the generators and car as the days went on.
With respect to my specific case, solar panels + battery (eg powerwall with a grid cutoff) + EV would have been far better than the fueled option. No doubt in my mind at all about this conclusion. If you have battery storage with transfer, the PVs will still be functional and will automatically disconnect from grid when power is lost.

Also, many people do not maintain their ICE generators and they fail to work when needed.

Indeed, the best case is the above (PV+batt) + a fueled generator for additional supplemental power (say during 3 days of clouds) if needed. But to be fair, all of the above is a costly option.

Just wish we had vehicle to grid (vehicle to house) capabilities, then we can use one EV as a backup power source or use a batt for the PV when needed . Japan has experimented with the PHEV Outlander in this way I believe.

Everyone should think about an action plan. An analogous situation could be an horrendous ice storm knocking out power etc...