HW2.5 even after April 12th build date

[leafian]

IIRC Elon said they started building cars with HW3 at that point, not that all cars would have it. I picked up my mid May build last week, and the service advisor said he had not seen a single HW3 M3 this month. The majority of the vehicles are still 2.5. I ordered FSD.
They also indicated there would not be any upgrades to FSD purchasers this year.
Yes I felt bad about not getting it. But Tesla is still way ahead of the competition. So I think M3 purchasers are still making out pretty well.

This is Musk's tweet from April 22:
Tesla on Twitter
All Tesla cars being built today have the hardware necessary for full self-driving:
8 vision cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, radar, and this custom-designed beast of a Full Self-Driving Computer
There is no ambiguity, nothing to interpret.
Your advisor could be telling the truth that he has not seen any HW3 M3 this month because all the HW3 M3 were built in April and then in May, Tesla started building HW2.5.
Maybe they ran out of HW3 or because HW2.5 was cheaper.
Maybe major problems with HW3 necessitated a switch back to HW2.5

 

[TheMaster]

lol, if you only knew how many cars are repaired before they hit the dealership lots. Spot paint repairs are exceedingly common in the auto industry, Tesla just does a bad job catching them before sending them out.

I have worked in the automotive industry for 26 years. What do you consider "exceedingly common"?

In any case, rework at the factory is one thing - where they are using the same lot of paint & clear coat. Bringing it down the road to a local body shop is a significant step down. I admire the work Tesla has done as much as anyone, but many are too eager to dismiss their shortfalls and failures.

 

[Bill Foster]

I work in the automotive industry. What do you consider "exceedingly common"?

In any case, rework at the factory is one thing - where they are using the same lot of paint & clear coat. Bringing it down the road to a local body shop is a significant step down. I admire the work Tesla has done as much as anyone, but many are too eager to dismiss their shortfalls and failures.

From people who do the touch ups, I hear about 1 out of 4 cars need it.

And it depends on the manufacturer. If it’s shipped here there are touch up centers at the port.

I realize people want this perfect car on delivery, but how do you know your perfect car wasn’t one that was attempted delivery to someone else and had the paint fixed after they declined it. Just something to consider

 

[TheMaster]

From people who do the touch ups, I hear about 1 out of 4 cars need it.

And it depends on the manufacturer. If it’s shipped here there are touch up centers at the port.

I realize people want this perfect car on delivery, but how do you know your perfect car wasn’t one that was attempted delivery to someone else and had the paint fixed after they declined it. Just something to consider

Well, if my build date is < 3 weeks of delivery date, I can be fairly certain my car was not rejected by someone, repaired and offered to me.

 

[Bill Foster]

Well, if my build date is < 3 weeks of delivery date, I can be fairly certain my car was not rejected by someone, repaired and offered to me.

Just something to think about. At the end of the day it’s just a car. It can be fixed.

 

[not4antoher]

Well, if my build date is < 3 weeks of delivery date, I can be fairly certain my car was not rejected by someone, repaired and offered to me.

My returned M3 SR+ had no hood emblem and a sign of repaint the hood.
It was 4/19 built, and the delivery date was 5/10/19.
The second M3 has a paint chip on RT Fender and the front bumper has about 1inch scratch.

 

[TheMaster]

My returned M3 SR+ had no hood emblem and a sign of repaint the hood.
It was 4/19 built, and the delivery date was 5/10/19.

I live in Ohio, so it takes 1-2 weeks just to get the vehicle shipped to our state.

 

[anticowboyism]

M3 SR+ with FSD, ordered 5/20. Build date of 4/19, Fremont. Looks like HW2.5 based on the video codec. Mpeg4/AVC. Will look at the AP hardware part # tonight.

I've personally had some close calls with the AP on Los Angeles freeways, slight understeering that puts the car inches from overpass pillars where there is no shoulder. So, while HW3 might not offer additional features, but if it offers better performance of AP, I see it as a critical upgrade.

 

[b t c]

Just took delivery today. Beautiful car! Build quality is fantastic. However, it appears I have AP2.5.

Build date according to DS: May 20/19. However, he also told me before delivery it was AP3. I'm not going to return the car or anything, but still curious.

[Current firmware]: 2019.16.3.2
[Last six of your VIN#]: 403xxx
[Codec of your TeslaCam videos (H.264 or H.265)]: H.264
[Parts # of the STICKER underneath your glovebox]: See pic
[Location (US, EUR, ASIA)]: US/(CAN)View attachment 416760

Worth pointing out that the date on that 2.5 case is earlier than the date on the 3.0 case pictured earlier in this thread.

Supports the theory that they're using up old inventory (this one from Nov last year...) in the lower priced models.

Makes sense as once they start doing upgrades, they'll be flush with 2.5 computers to use as replacement parts (assuming there's no legal issues with recycling perfectly capable parts), so no need to keep extra replacement 2.5 computers in inventory. In fact, if that ends up being the case, I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 continues to ship on base-model cars for years if they're allowed to recycle the 2.5's they take out of upgrade cars. Could actually be a way to bring back the $35k price.

 

[OPRCE]

Worth pointing out that the date on that 2.5 case is earlier than the date on the 3.0 case pictured earlier in this thread.

Supports the theory that they're using up old inventory (this one from Nov last year...) in the lower priced models.

Makes sense as once they start doing upgrades, they'll be flush with 2.5 computers to use as replacement parts (assuming there's no legal issues with recycling perfectly capable parts), so no need to keep extra replacement 2.5 computers in inventory. In fact, if that ends up being the case, I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 continues to ship on base-model cars for years if they're allowed to recycle the 2.5's they take out of upgrade cars. Could actually be a way to bring back the $35k price.

I don't see why there would be a legal problem with building recycled 2.5s into new cars without FSD, as long as they offer the same warranty as on a new part. Otherwise it is just so much more scrap cards for the landfill someplace.

 

[sixela]

but if it offers better performance of AP

If anything right now HW3 appears to be slower and slightly more buggy, and new features appear slightly later (looking at how firmware versions are being pushed out and installed on cars).

It's very possible that in future people without FSD enabled will be running HW2.5 optimised code forever, or code that does not run any faster/better on HW3 (e.g. it would run the same size of neural net and use the same frame processing rates, with HW3 either emulating HW2.5 code or twiddling its thumbs for more of the time; but it would run a larger neural net processing more data faster for people who have FSD enabled and are equipped with HW3).

In other words, if you haven't bought FSD and are hoping to receive a car with HW3 (and contemplating rejecting a HW2.5 car) I think you're chasing phantoms on a hope and a prayer, at this point. This might change, of course, but then a lot of things "might".

In other words, don't write "if X" and then make decisions as if X were true.

 

[dsvick]

... if that ends up being the case, I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 continues to ship on base-model cars for years if they're allowed to recycle the 2.5's they take out of upgrade cars. Could actually be a way to bring back the $35k price.

In other words, if you haven't bought FSD and are hoping to receive a car with HW3 (and contemplating rejecting a HW2.5 car) I think you're chasing phantoms on a hope and a prayer, at this point. This might change, of course, but then a lot of things "might".

In other words, don't write "if X" and then make decisions as if X were true.

I think a lot of it will come down to the cost difference between the 2.5 and 3 processors. If the cost isn't too much higher and it simplifies the supply chain then they may well just exhaust their inventory of 2.5 hardware and then ship everyone with 3.0. That also removes the need to do an upgrade if someone decides to add FSD after purchase. But, either way, I agree that if you haven't purchased FSD I would not be holding my breath on getting 3.0 hardware any time soon.

 

[sixela]

In Europe Morning Cornelia cars (built mid-April) were all HW2.5 (as far as I can tell). Nocc Oceanic cars (built end of April) almost all have HW3. But Grand Phoenix cars have started to appear with HW2.5 once more (but the AWD models on that ship tend to be HW3). No news yet of Grand Dahlia cars (with the first SR+ for Europe).

Whether you bought FSD or not doesn't really seem to play any role for the moment on whether you get HW2.5 or HW3 (I think the software to match VINs with orders simply disregards it).

 

[pcgqr1]

I have HW3 and cars are dancing and jumping all over the place rendering the screen unusable so you're not missing out. it's not PlayStation 2 vs PlayStation 3. I would take 2.5 or wait for HW3.1 or 3.5.

 

[torontohm3wait]

I have HW3 and cars are dancing and jumping all over the place rendering the screen unusable so you're not missing out. it's not PlayStation 2 vs PlayStation 3. I would take 2.5 or wait for HW3.1 or 3.5.

I have FSD HW2.5 and my cars are dancing around as well just an FYI I do not think its the hardware that is causing it.

 

[DoubleE]

I have HW3 and cars are dancing and jumping all over the place rendering the screen unusable so you're not missing out. it's not PlayStation 2 vs PlayStation 3. I would take 2.5 or wait for HW3.1 or 3.5.

Yea the cars are always dancing and jumping around on my screen whenever I'm at a stop light. It's crazy

 

[dsvick]

I have HW3 and cars are dancing and jumping all over the place rendering the screen unusable so you're not missing out. it's not PlayStation 2 vs PlayStation 3. I would take 2.5 or wait for HW3.1 or 3.5.

I have FSD HW2.5 and my cars are dancing around as well just an FYI I do not think its the hardware that is causing it.

Right, it isn't the hardware, they've been dancing around since version 9 came out late last year. And, while yes they do jitter around a bit, I don't think it makes the screen unusable.

 

[samk579]

This is Musk's tweet from April 22:
Tesla on Twitter
All Tesla cars being built today have the hardware necessary for full self-driving:
8 vision cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, radar, and this custom-designed beast of a Full Self-Driving Computer
There is no ambiguity, nothing to interpret.
Your advisor could be telling the truth that he has not seen any HW3 M3 this month because all the HW3 M3 were built in April and then in May, Tesla started building HW2.5.
Maybe they ran out of HW3 or because HW2.5 was cheaper.
Maybe major problems with HW3 necessitated a switch back to HW2.5

Yes, this is a lie. I rejected delivery because the paint chip on the rear bumper cannot be buffed out. It's damaged through the paint. Vancouver delivery centre told me to just take it and go home. While they try their fix, I checked the software and then confirmed with the manager and it's HW2.5. The build date is May 2019.

 

[TheMaster]

Well, I have received a replacement VIN already with delivery scheduled next week. New VIN is 25k higher than my previous one ending in 393XXX. I'll find out tomorrow if it is HW2.5 or HW3. First unit was HW3.

My first assigned car I was TOLD had a build date of 5/6 (I received 3 different dates from 3 different reps). Will be interesting to see if this is also HW3.

 

[electronblue]

Could this be caused by the China tarriffs? Tesla saving some money?

Trump’s tariffs could knock Tesla’s Autopilot off course – TechCrunch

The tarrifs apply to AP2.5 too of course but perhaps Tesla has been using existing stock to mitigate the impact while they awaited for the tarrif exception resolution (which now failed too). It also could be that AP2.5 with tarrifs is cheaper than AP3 with tarrifs.