I continue to be amazed at the hatred for EVs

[MikeRTX]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm still amazed at the public hatred for EVs. Not just indifference or dislike, but real hatred.

I'm not a tree hugger, nor a save-the whales or eco terrorist, I'm just an old guy who enjoys tech and interesting "new stuff", who wanted to experience the EV world for a change.

Yeah, yeah, I know the arguments against EVs - expensive, short range, inconvenient to charge, they burn up your house, they're dangerous if you get in a wreck, yadda yadda yadda. But as owners know, the hype is most often flat incorrect. I listened on the radio again today while talkshow hosts went on and on about how stupid it is for the government and carmakers to push EVs, and I was again surprised to hear the falsehoods and anti-EV diatribes being pushed.

Why do people hate EVs so much??? If you don't like EVs, don't get one! But quit trying to get them banned ... or whatever your goal is!

 

[Birdsfan]

I admit I clicked on the thread because of the subject, I was confused With that being said I also find it interesting how much people, across a lot of socioeconomic lines hate EV's and Tesla (Musk) specifically. There is a YouTuber I watch Wham Bam Tesla Cam that shows lots of captured incidents of folks being destructive to Tesla's along with crashes. I think it has to do with so much misinformation and propaganda.

 

[Heckraiser]

Confirmation bias. People love what they're used to. I also own a gas-guzzling 4x4 that gets 15mpg only on a good day with a tailwind. I love it and it does things that no EV can currently do.

What's that you say? One Tesla burned down a guy's house while charging in the garage? Well there you have it! All EVs are a public menace and safety catastrophy! Nevermind the fact that thousands of ICE cars catch fire every year.

What's that you say? Mining for EV batteries harms ecosystems near the mining site? Well there you have it! All EVs are an ecological disaster, therefore I'll continue to burn two tons of unleaded every year until the day I die!

I'm sure at least 50% of the pushback is purely politics: "Biden is pro-EV, therefore I am anti-EV"

Personally, I do not believe EV's are a panacea to solve all our climate and energy problems, and they come with their own batch of environmental and practical problems. But I know some EV-owners do not acknowledge this and are very vocal about it. These dolts do a lot to damage the image of the EV in public discourse, as so eloquently described in this South Park episode:

 

[st_o_p]

Well - I can kind of understand where people that are set against EVs are coming from. Right now you basically have 2 options - Tesla or something else.

Tesla has the best drivetrain and gets you more range/better car for less money then others in the US. But Tesla has jumped the shark and has gone to the dark side. They pulled full "Apple" - we'll force-feed you what we want and you're going to like it, we don't care what you want. No steering wheel, blinkers on buttons, no parking sensors, no radar - the list goes on and on. On top of that service is truly horrible - speaking as someone who has had his car out of warranty for less than a year and have had 3 unpleasant in one way or another cases of having to bring the car to the service center. Compared to a german brand - Tesla service is a disaster. Between those two things - I personally wouldn't buy a Tesla right now.

Every other manufacturer's EV you have to put up with compromises. You can have nice car but with smaller range for higher price - and will have to live with them working out the kinks of their EV technology on early generation vehicle. Honestly at this point I probably like BMW i5 best from what I see on the market - but it's not perfect by any stretch. Whereas a gasoline version is.

 

[golfcart]

The internet is a big place you’ll find people with all sorts of opinions. I’ve heard a lot of misinformation about EVs but not much hatred personally. Though I do have a few lefty friends that now hate Elon because he says some “problematic” things or something.

I think people mostly hate mandates and subsidies for things they don’t like/want which impacts the perception of EVs a lot. The UAW strike also had an impact on it since EV targets and fuel efficiently mandates are drastically changing the auto industry.

That said I’ve been driving electric since 2015 and have never had a single person mess with my car or say something negative to me about being an EV driver. Mostly just questions about charging/range, battery replacement cost, and how fast my P3D is. And the kids at my child’s elementary school think I’m rich because I drive a Tesla .

 

[jabloomf1230]

Who are these ICEists you speak of?

 

[fhteagle]

ICEists

Lol is that homophone for ISIS if it is said just right?

The anti-EV drumbeat in the lamestream media is no accident. Take it as proof they are bought and paid for by big oil, big auto, and pretty much every other advertiser with deep pockets.

I've been privy to how the billionaires of the world talk when they think no one can hear them. Trust me, they are well aware of what a shift to EVs means to the billions and billions of dollars of fossil fuel "assets" around the world. They want to delay the inevitable shift as long as they can get away with it, by any means necessary. Making people fear what they don't understand is a big part of it, but far from the only play in their play book.

 

[chinney]

[...] Compared to a german brand - Tesla service is a disaster. [...]

Comments like this are an illustration of the problem with commentary about EVs. It is not a comment to the effect that the commentators own experience with Tesla service has been negative, but an an across the board assertion that Tesla service is terrible. Really? My own experience with Tesla has been been just excellent. Does that prove that Tesla service is better than.other brands? No. But don't just assume that it worse and especially do not assume not that it is a ´disaster'. I have heard plenty of anecdotal stories from friends and colleagues about the expense, delays and dealership run-arounds in servicing 'German brands' in North America. Stories can be told all around.

 

[The Lorax]

I think government mandates have a lot to do with it. 30 years ago, I started to see lots of people with cell phones and I ultimately decided to try one. I've since given up my landline and haven't given it another thought since. If however, the government had told me that they were going to restrict my choices to ONLY cell phones, then I would be sure to resent it and might even start trash talking them. I'm sure that people's conversion to cell phones would have gone much slower if mandated by government. And cars are a much more expensive and emotional purchase than a cell phone so it's no surprise to see some of the reaction to EV's. Governments do very few things well, and telling people how to live their lives isn't one of them. (Some governments don't do anything well but I'll save that post for another forum).

I honestly think there would be more genuine interest in EV's if we had just let people discover them on their own. It might take a bit longer for it to catch on but there wouldn't be the polarization we see today. And by artificially forcing a conversion, we're just giving more ammunition to those people who want to say that EV's aren't ready for prime time. If governments want to be helpful, they should focus on charging infrastructure and grid updates. I love my Model S but think that the free market and human nature should drive adoption.

 

[Bouba]

I have to argue everyday on the boat forum with the antiEVers...they can’t countenance the loss of the engine sounds....and these people are sailboaters who call motorboats ‘stinkpots’. I think that when people truly want to be on the wrong side of history...we should just leave them to it

 

[st_o_p]

Comments like this are an illustration of the problem with commentary about EVs. It is not a comment to the effect that the commentators own experience with Tesla service has been negative, but an an across the board assertion that Tesla service is terrible. Really? My own experience with Tesla has been been just excellent. Does that prove that Tesla service is better than.other brands? No. But don't just assume that it worse and especially do not assume not that it is a ´disaster'. I have heard plenty of anecdotal stories from friends and colleagues about the expense, delays and dealership run-arounds in servicing 'German brands' in North America. Stories can be told all around.

Yeah? Wait a bit more - you'll eventually find out.
I had amazing experience with Tesla service for the first 3 or so years of ownership - mostly because the car didn't have problems so the only time I had to deal with service was replacing flat tire.
Then the car ran out of the 4 year warranty - and amazingly in 8 months I've had to bring it in 3 times and all for serious issues. Each time I was without a car for over a week until they finally provided a loaner. Each service was supposed to take a day or two - but none was less than 10 days until completed. I have had to go in person repeatedly. Last time I brought the car in for something then had to take it at the end of the day and nothing was done (due to missing part) but it wasted 2 hours of my day going there twice.
That is a disaster - there is no other word for it.

I will grant you that it may depend on specific service center. I live in high density area - with a lot of Teslas around - so the center is very busy. That doesn't excuse anything; they should adjust for it. I've been servicing BMWs in dealerships in this same area for the last 20 years (and some of them over 10 years old). The BMW service experience has its issues (mostly price) but it's light years better than Tesla; never have been without a car for more than 2-3 hours whatever happening.

 

[Bouba]

Yeah? Wait a bit more - you'll eventually find out.
I had amazing experience with Tesla service for the first 3 or so years of ownership - mostly because the car didn't have problems so the only time I had to deal with service was replacing flat tire.
Then the car ran out of the 4 year warranty - and amazingly in 8 months I've had to bring it in 3 times and all for serious issues. Each time I was without a car for over a week until they finally provided a loaner. Each service was supposed to take a day or two - but none was less than 10 days until completed. I have had to go in person repeatedly. Last time I brought the car in for something then had to take it at the end of the day and nothing was done (due to missing part) but it wasted 2 hours of my day going there twice.
That is a disaster - there is no other word for it.

I will grant you that it may depend on specific service center. I live in high density area - with a lot of Teslas around - so the center is very busy. That doesn't excuse anything; they should adjust for it. I've been servicing BMWs in dealerships in this same area for the last 20 years (and some of them over 10 years old). The BMW service experience has its issues (mostly price) but it's light years better than Tesla; never have been without a car for more than 2-3 hours whatever happening.

It sounds exactly like my experience with Volvo.... the only difference is that besides not doing anything...they take your money before they return the key....they owed me two thousand before I finally got rid of the sh1t heap.
I don’t expect better from Tesla....I’m just hoping that they are

 

[cappy1]

Perhaps most people don’t hate EVs per se, but see them as a reminder of government electrification mandates that threaten their livelihood and way of life. Any changes of this magnitude in such a short time are likely to create anger, regardless of the proof of need. Dr. Juran once warned that attempting to change a culture too rapidly is like trying to speed up an egg hatching with a blowtorch and winding up with a hard-boiled egg instead!

 

[RSpanner]

I have to argue everyday on the boat forum with the antiEVers...they can’t countenance the loss of the engine sounds....and these people are sailboaters who call motorboats ‘stinkpots’. I think that when people truly want to be on the wrong side of history...we should just leave them to it

I was on the Wooden Boat forum..not sure if you meant that one. A lot of old guy, like me, but who refuse to think out side the old box they put themselves in. Some of the things they said are valid..to a degree. Cost (then again, most of them drive the same cars or trucks they have had for decades. Then they get into how difficult it would be to charge them (again..they are not willing to keep up with the changes..with Tesla and others ) The list goes on and I gave up giving them places to get information and Facts. No one was interested, only prejudiced. You tell me why.

 

[Bouba]

I was on the Wooden Boat forum..not sure if you meant that one. A lot of old guy, like me, but who refuse to think out side the old box they put themselves in. Some of the things they said are valid..to a degree. Cost (then again, most of them drive the same cars or trucks they have had for decades. Then they get into how difficult it would be to charge them (again..they are not willing to keep up with the changes..with Tesla and others ) The list goes on and I gave up giving them places to get information and Facts. No one was interested, only prejudiced. You tell me why.

No one knows....but boat ownership implies some mild form of madness....and those who post on forums usually have a more virulent strain
I’m on the YBW forum...which does have a wooden boat sub-forum

 

[RSpanner]

No one knows....but boat ownership implies some mild form of madness....and those who post on forums usually have a more virulent strain
I’m on the YBW forum...which does have a wooden boat sub-forum

"some mild form of madness"

Ha..,, so true...but..but I go there too...Oy

 

[chinney]

Yeah? Wait a bit more - you'll eventually find out.
I had amazing experience with Tesla service for the first 3 or so years of ownership - mostly because the car didn't have problems so the only time I had to deal with service was replacing flat tire.
Then the car ran out of the 4 year warranty - and amazingly in 8 months I've had to bring it in 3 times and all for serious issues. Each time I was without a car for over a week until they finally provided a loaner. Each service was supposed to take a day or two - but none was less than 10 days until completed. I have had to go in person repeatedly. Last time I brought the car in for something then had to take it at the end of the day and nothing was done (due to missing part) but it wasted 2 hours of my day going there twice.
That is a disaster - there is no other word for it.

I will grant you that it may depend on specific service center. I live in high density area - with a lot of Teslas around - so the center is very busy. That doesn't excuse anything; they should adjust for it. I've been servicing BMWs in dealerships in this same area for the last 20 years (and some of them over 10 years old). The BMW service experience has its issues (mostly price) but it's light years better than Tesla; never have been without a car for more than 2-3 hours whatever happening.

Maybe so, but as I suggested and others have as well, if and when this happens - and I know some with older model Teslas for whom it has not happened - I hope that I can avoid overgeneralizing and making the assumption that means all Teslas and maybe all EVs are sh*t and I ought never to buy one again. I have owned cars for more than 30 years (all of them ICE vehicles except for our current Tesla) and I can tell you that I have pretty variable experiences with reliability and servicing from a variety of brands. It has ranged from decent, to middling to quite bad. But I never said during all that time with ICE cars that I would never buy another one, nor even that I would never buy another of that brand.

That's what annoys me about a lot of the reporting about Teslas and EVs. A media story will bring up a particular example of a negative experience, or cherry-picked stats about Teslas or other EVs, overgenerlize from that, and make the implication, sometime the outright suggestion of 'well that proves it - EVs are just not ready yet - maybe they will never be - better buy another ICE car'. And the posts in the comments section of the story take it even further in that direction. And people believe it!! Even intelligent and otherwise well informed people. I had another of experience with that last night. I had dinner with a friend whose general knowledge and intelligence I very much respect who told me he that would 'like to buy an EV', but would not do it until he could 'drive it in the winter'. I patiently reminded him that I had driven my Model 3 through three Canadian winters, including road trips. He remained dubious and then quickly changed the subject...

 

[father_of_6]

It'd be interesting to know if this also exists outside of the U.S., but I think here it's largely caused by politics and culture.

So bizarre to me that breathing fresh air is somehow aligned with one of the political parties but not the other... however it's the truth. Sadly, Team Red has married Oil & Gas "til death do us part". That means they have to be anti-EV, which means Team Blue has to be pro-EV. In my opinion, that's half of the EV hate.

The other half of the EV hate is because the *ENGINE* is part of our cultural identity. Even on these very Tesla forums, we see many owners talking about driving their Tesla to work during the week and having a "fun weekend car". Those seem to always require a V8 engine that makes enough noise to deafen nearby pedestrians.

I think this will be a generational shift. Legislation might force new cars to be zero-emission, but that alone won't take the ICE vehicles off the road. Mechanics are going to keep them running as long as possible... so many of them can't/won't transition to electric vehicles. We won't fully rid ourselves of ICE vehicles until those that want them die off, or fuel becomes so expensive that they can no longer afford them.

 

[st_o_p]

Some of the posts here come from a point that EVs must displace ICE engines no matter what. You need to recognize that is NOT the perception of at least 50% of the US population.

EVs must be genuinely better in order to attract customers and make the transition happen. And that is not exactly the case - even now. You can say they are not significantly worse - for some people are better - but overall unless you're coming from an environmental position - there's no compelling reason to dump ICE altogether.

I am a perfect example - I own one ICE BMW and one Tesla. When I purchased my Model 3 I did it genuinely because I believed it is the best car on the market for me - and not for any other reason. Like I said above - if I had to do that again I don't think I would. Other people of course will feel differently. But you're not going to make people want EVs unless you have a compelling offering.

 

[voyager]

I am amazed that the mood has changed that rapidly in favor of EVs.

Although this might not help:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730157221391024526