Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

I feed bad for all those 90D owners

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Tesla has to do something to help with lagging sales. There as not been any new features or changes in awhile. Hopefully they have something exciting up their s

lagging sales? sales numbers have risen every quarter...its a flat-ish curve but the numbers are still higher every quarter vs the last. With any tech product you always will find something newer that will make ur thing sound obsolete.

But we can all just take the time to enjoy what we have and stop worrying about tiny petty things like these or stall our lives and never be satisfied. There are early adopters of non-AP Model S who have no convenience features and still love their cars #shrug
 
  • Like
Reactions: bhzmark and malcolm
I have to disagree about the lack of changes. My P85 was top of the line 3 years ago. I just had a P100D loaner and woha! My car feels extremely slow now, interior was much better, and 320 miles range. If you're feeling bad already don't even look in a couple years. Me? I'm just thinking I hope they come out with more soon for my next car : )
 
  • Like
Reactions: malcolm
@AnxietyRanger: if you quote me, please don't leave out the second half of my post, which contained the point I was trying to make. It's not intellectually very honest of you to do that.

And you can also reply to that second paragraph of my post, if you wish.

No dishonesty meant, I thought your opinion stood on its own - I just wanted to clarify the competition's upgrade cycle.

But since you asked, some thoughts:

Why not sell the Tesla and buy the latest Lexus or Audi? With a bit of luck, there will be no OTA updates (you will get navigation updates if you pay for the annually released DVD's), so your car will remain the same until Lexus/Audi does a refresh (generally after 2 years) or has a "new" model (after 4 years). Great resale value after three years, right?

Oh but wait: what would happen to the retail price of a that s/h Audi A7/Lexus GS if Tesla in the meanwhile managed to make a much better car for a lot less money, and always getting better via OTA updates? Hmmm, wouldn't that both affect the s/h resale price of a Tesla and that of an Audi A7/Lexus GS in the same way? (or perhaps even less with a Tesla, given the OTA updates?).

Could be, I think.

Depreciation of BEVs vs. ICEs going forward is certainly an interesting topic. For me, the Model S in over two years of ownership lost more value (both relative and absolute) than my previous Audi A8 did in over four years of ownership. It seems to me, depending on market, BEVs have suffered from extra depreciation due to their rapid advancement, while ICE value curve so far has remained traditional (I agree others have other experiences). Now, could this flip the other way around as BEVs proliferate and ICEs are on their way out, certainly it could. Interesting to see.

I am not so concerned about depreciation, though, when thinking of car purchases like this. I am more interested in timing a good time to buy features-wise - a good balance on what I can get, and when I should get it. That is what I personally find hard with Teslas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: avesraggiana
But that just leads to the situation where I'm fine with disruption until the point where I'm suddenly not.

Of course. There is a point where even an early adopter's opinion can tranform from appreciating disruption to not. As there is no absolute truth (not even success on the market place is an absolute truth because success can happen despite of a thing, not only because of it), it all comes down to opinions, analysis, what have you...

For me, Tesla of 2014 was disrupting at a reasonable pace. I know even the early years had improvements that appeared (parking sensors etc.), but at least they were improvements - and in the early days Tesla also offered some retrofits. The pace was simply less manic. I think 2015 was OK too. Even Tesla noted this by grouping D/AP1 and saying nothing big, new would come for a year after the P85D announcement. So they seemed cognisant of this thinking (even though P90D did appear fairly soon)...

Then boom, came along 2016 and everything really went overboard. Multiple major changes spread throughout the year, joined by numerous smaller changes in-between - and this time not just adding things, but taking them away too (trim options disappeared, seat ventilation gone, adaptive spoiler gone, Free Supercharging gone, only to soon re-appear, price going up, down, up down, etc.). This seemed to coincide the time Tesla went from supply to demand constrained as Q2 of 2016 saw a slowdown...

I think at some stage Tesla simply felt they needed as well as can benefit from aggressive optimization from sales and logistics point of view, so the upped the ante considerably, and decided they'd simply use "showroom discounts" and inventory discounts to manage the situation. Whenever they see even a small benefit in some change (for them), they seem to go for it, without much long-term planning in it... They even use reverse discounts to drive demand by pre-announcing price increases (and then next quarter bringing that price down to increase sales again)... Since Tesla chooses not to advertise (well, they advertise now a bit) and not use traditional discount campaigns, they have to resort to this type of fiddling.

IMO that is short-term thinking. They can move the stock (and THE stock), no doubt, and they can use it as a demand lever to some extent to move more of the stock, but they are also paying a PR and customer satisfaction price that I'm not sure is either necessary or worth it. Because I am definitely not sure this is in their customer's benefit at all, on this level. And definitely in-effect it ruins Tesla's "everyone pays the same" thinking as buying a Tesla, price-wise, is one of the most random things in automotive industry at this time...

They just went overboard with this IMO. Toning it down a little does not mean the disruption would have to end, it does not mean having to return to model years. Tesla was disrupting already in 2014.

Maybe the only comparison I can make is with gambling. You have to decide in advance where your limit is and be determined to stick to it.

Not easy if you constantly watch others apparently gaining more for no reason.

Not a bad analogy. Or an auction. Certainly, that is pretty much the only strategy to buying a Tesla these days - define your own parameters and stick to them. But even that is quite unoptimal in my books, because my parameters - and I know those of many who think like me - are not defined simply by what I want, but also by what I can get. A car this price is partly an emotional purchase.

I think with this level of change Tesla is going from emotional disruption to disrupting the emotion and that's where I think they might be wise to tone down a bit. As someone so eloquently put it, this has become a deterrent for some of us...
 
I think with this level of change Tesla is going from emotional disruption to disrupting the emotion and that's where I think they might be wise to tone down a bit. As someone so eloquently put it, this has become a deterrent for some of us

Then, to use the gambling analogy; the point when you feel deterred is the point for you to quit.

Others will have quit sooner while others will be happy to play on.
 
Then, to use the gambling analogy; the point when you feel deterred is the point for you to quit.

Others will have quit sooner while others will be happy to play on.

Sure. But does a car purchase really need to be the equivalent of gambling? And is this the best level of disruption Tesla could do?

I know Tesla reads, so I am offering an opinion above in the hopes they re-consider these questions down the road.
 
When we were researching our car purchase in early 2017, we came across depreciation comparisons that showed that Teslas retained their value (had lower depreciation rates) than other luxury cars like Lexus, Audi, etc over the first couple of years of ownership. It was a factor in our purchase decision - but not the primary factor. However, it would be interesting to see how that data looks now after all the gyrations in pricing and features over the past 6-9 months. Perhaps not as favorable?

Anyone buying a new car - regardless of brand or price point - should expect healthy depreciation in the first few years of ownership. If that stings too much, than a "newish" used car could be a better fit. But I do appreciate the OPs point. Value decline driven by real improvement in the newest version of a product feels a lot different than value decline driven by short-term discounting to spike sales or by eroding the value of the top end of the product line (90/100) by upgrading the features of the entry level of the product line (60/75).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sawyer8888
Can it be a case that many owners have spent more on their Tesla than any of their previous cars?

Hence, myself included, we are "enoying" the typical depreciation of cars in this price bracket.

At least mine keeps getting better with OTA updates which is more than you can say for most every other car.
Who knows it might even have all its promised features by the time I come to sell it to a future lucky owner.
 
IMHO there are more important things in life than counting one's money. Especially when 100k cars come within your reach. But then even Rockefeller was patching his pants and boiling potatoes in the office for lunch:) In other words look forward or as my friend eloquently put it after he got his next 911:

Xxxx it, we only live once!
 
Sure. But does a car purchase really need to be the equivalent of gambling? And is this the best level of disruption Tesla could do?

I know Tesla reads, so I am offering an opinion above in the hopes they re-consider these questions down the road.

Huh? You're purchasing a depreciating asset. How is that not gambling? The House/Entropy always wins.

The problem with a disruption that customers can track is that competitors can track it also. Therefore it ceases to be disruption.

You seem to be pleading a case for friendly neighborhood disruption; a disruption with no surprises.

Arguable, the very best level of this sort of disruption is called a cartel; where everyone knows everyone else's next move.
 
Huh? You're purchasing a depreciating asset. How is that not gambling? The House/Entropy always wins.
purchasing a car is a gamble that it will work properly, satisfy your need both functionally and emotionally but unless you are buying a collectors/specialty type car buying a new car is not a gamble, it is almost always a money losing proposition.
As for your cartel comment, do you think that there is never deception amongst members of a cartel?
look no further than OPEC for examples of deceptive members of a cartel.
 
I would've loved to buy a used Model S, but there weren't any. I knew depreciation was a huge factor and accepted it.

Today there's no way I'd buy a new one. Inventory maybe, more likely CPO or private sale. That's what you do if a price drop or feature change might upset you.
 
I saw that but it's 2 months old and there have been countless deliveries of 75kWh batteries (delivered as 75s) in U.S. since then. Anybody who's counting on an 85 in their 75 should be prepared for a letdown. Tesla is currently not shipping 85s so OP shouldn't be making a comparison to that battery.

I guess the speculation was Tesla started sending 85's abroad first because of longer delivery times and would swap 75's in the U.S. only once they ran out... This way they won't end up with 75 kWh inventory abroad once they make the announcement...

Speculation, of course...