If I accidentally switch to neutral while driving, can I switch back to drive?

[stretchymantis]

is the excelerator the pedal between the brake and the accelerator? is it like an extra pedal?

lol

 

[SammichLover]

Pedantic warning (letter of the law vs intent):
Fortunately, the gears/ transmission of a Tesla are fixed are not capable of neutral.

Would disengaging the clutch on a manual be allowed?
Yes, if it not a bus or truck:

Wording varies by jurisdiction. For example TRANSPORTATION CODE CHAPTER 545. OPERATION AND MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES Scroll down to "Sec. 545.406.".

Also, if you are so foolhardy as to do it you definitely should check with a local attorney as amendments and case law, AKA as it is interpreted and enforced by the courts, can lead to misinterpretation when just focused in on the text in a given code. Sometimes other parts of the code, such as reckless driving type infractions or such, can catch these things indirectly.

Even then, if you're coasting down a hill of any note with a Model 3 you're probably exceeding the speed limit at some point. The air drag and rolling resistance is so low on a Model 3 this is even more-so the case than usual.

 

[mongo]

Wording varies by jurisdiction. For example TRANSPORTATION CODE CHAPTER 545. OPERATION AND MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES Scroll down to "Sec. 545.406.".

Also, if you are so foolhardy as to do it you definitely should check with a local attorney as amendments and case law, AKA as it is interpreted and enforced by the courts, can lead to misinterpretation when just focused in on the text in a given code. Sometimes other parts of the code, such as reckless driving type infractions or such, can catch these things indirectly.

Even then, if you're coasting down a hill of any note with a Model 3 you're probably exceeding the speed limit at some point. The air drag and rolling resistance is so low on a Model 3 this is even more-so the case than usual.

Twas but a literal interpretation, not advice.

While there are likely jurisdictions with different phrasing, the wording in your link matches my statement from September of last year:

Sec. 545.406. COASTING. (a) An operator moving on a downgrade may not coast with the gears or transmission of the vehicle in neutral.
(b) An operator of a truck, tractor, or bus moving on a downgrade may not coast with the clutch disengaged.

Near identical to the link I had replied to :

(a) The driver of any motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the gears or transmission of such vehicle in neutral.

(b) The driver of a truck or bus when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the clutch disengaged.

FWIW, regarding acceleration, a Model 3 uses around 280Wh/mile at 60 MPH. It weighs 4,000 pounds on the high end. To gain 280Wh in 5,280 feet requires a height drop of. 185.6 feet, a grade of 3.5% .

 

[SammichLover]

Twas but a literal interpretation, not advice.

While there are likely jurisdictions with different phrasing, the wording in your link matches my statement from September of last year:


Near identical to the link I had replied to :


FWIW, regarding acceleration, a Model 3 uses around 280Wh/mile at 60 MPH. It weighs 4,000 pounds on the high end. To gain 280Wh in 5,280 feet requires a height drop of. 185.6 feet, a grade of 3.5% .

I didn't see the other post, was just running off of and responding to the particular post I responded to.

Given the a) very clearly prohibits you from putting the Model 3 into Neutral and coasting, b) doesn't really come into the matter, no?

FWIW, regarding acceleration, a Model 3 uses around 280Wh/mile at 60 MPH. It weighs 4,000 pounds on the high end. To gain 280Wh in 5,280 feet requires a height drop of. 185.6 feet, a grade of 3.5% .

So? 6-8% grades are all over the place in the country. 3.5% is very, very tame. Things get much different when you up up there.

EDIT: Also, you're assuming coming to nigh 0MPH at the peaks, plus the Model 3 has a lot less inherent rolling + air resistance than that at 60MPH unless you have modded it somehow.

 

[vickh]

Forget driving, i can barely figure out how to put in neutral in car wash (one more reason to hand wash!)

I wonder why they made it so hard compared to other cars?

how much do you gain by putting in neutral vs say regen braking downhill?

 

[SammichLover]

Forget driving, i can barely figure out how to put in neutral in car wash (one more reason to hand wash!)

I wonder why they made it so hard compared to other cars?

1) Why do you hate your car so much that you put it into a rolling car wash?
2) There are precious few use cases to put it in Neutral outside said masochistic purpose, and even less that instead going to Tow Mode via the screen gets the job done.

I had my car for months before I realized you could use the gear shift to go to N, when I accidentally put in in there. Just had no need. Only time I ever had a need I was working on the rear brakes, which requires Tow Mode anyway.

 

[mongo]

I didn't see the other post, was just running off of and responding to the particular post I responded to.

Given the a) very clearly prohibits you from putting the Model 3 into Neutral and coasting, b) doesn't really come into the matter, no?

That's the thing though, Tesla's do not have shiftable gears. With only one mode of operation, it is impossible to put the transmission or gear box into neutral vs drive so a) does not prohibit you.

Sec. 545.406. COASTING. (a) An operator moving on a downgrade may not coast with the gears or transmission of the vehicle in neutral.

If it said "gears, transmission, or motor in neutral", that would cover the Tesla mode of operation. Further, the existence of b) shows that using the clutch while still in gear is allowed for cars. As such, a parallel could be drawn between a Tesla in N (motor disengaged) and a car with the clutch depressed (motor disengaged). However, I think such a link would be erroneous since the clutch automatically engages if the foot is removed, whereas more deliberate action is needed to put the car back into D. Just like it takes an action to put the transmission back into gear.

So? 6-8% grades are all over the place in the country. 3.5% is very, very tame. Things get much different when you up up there.

EDIT: Also, you're assuming coming to nigh 0MPH at the peaks, plus the Model 3 has a lot less inherent rolling + air resistance than that at 60MPH unless you have modded it somehow.

I was not commenting on the frequency of such grades, only the grade at which steady state speed would be reached. Those were also rough numbers, which is why I listed them out. A lighter car needs more slope, and one lower energy consumption needs less.
There is no assumption about speed at the peak in that calculation. The 3 (or any car) will have a curve of grade vs steady state speed. If it is above that speed, it will slow down if it is below, it will speed up.

 

[SammichLover]

That's the thing though, Tesla's do not have shiftable gears.

You actually think you'd get that past a judge? ROFL It is right there, shifting D for go ahead and R for go back and N for stay put ("neutral" as you like to call it). Good luck with that.

I was not commenting on the frequency of such grades, only the grade at which steady state speed would be reached.

With critical mistakes as I noted, including the frequency and frankly one I left out as to why you'd be doing much in the way of coasting anyway.

here is no assumption about speed at the peak in that calculation.

Yes there is, you are assuming 0mph start, at the top of the hill. You didn't understand that? The "peak" of the hill, that is. If that's what you're doing, trying to time reaching 0mph when getting to the top of the hill (well slightly above that if you have Hold on, or your brakes kick in) then you are one hellva scary vehicle out on the road.

 

[mongo]

You actually think you'd get that past a judge? ROFL It is right there, shifting D for go ahead and R for go back and N for neutral. Good luck with that.

Apparently you missed the first line of my post (emphasis added):

Pedantic warning (letter of the law vs intent):

So what do you think I'd think the judge would think?

Do D,N,R change anything in the Tesla gearing or transmission?

With critical mistakes as I noted, including the frequency and frankly why you'd be doing coasting anyway.

Hardly critical, the formulas are all linear and I ran the numbers with assumptions for grins. Feel free to scale by your consumption/ cruising speed. I did not comment on frequency of such grade. I also never commented on the wisdom of coasting downhill, in any of my posts in this thread.

Oh, you edited:

Yes there is, you are assuming 0mph start, at the top of the hill. You didn't understand that? The "peak" of the hill, that is. If that's what you're doing, trying to time reaching 0mph when getting to the top of the hill (well slightly above that if you have Hold on, or your brakes kick in) then you are on hellva scary vehicle out on the road.

How is steady state energy required to counter drag at all dependent on a previous speed at the top of the hill?? It is a direct conversion of potential energy which is only dependent on mass, change in height, and gravity. Initial speed is in no way a factor. As speed X on downhill grade Y, the car will stabilize at speed Z. Initial speed would only matter if you never reach terminal speed.

The law is regarding "on a downgrade" and comments were about coasting downhill, why are you talking about getting to the top at 0? If you were trying to calculate how high up a hill you could go based on initial speed, or how fast you need to be going to coast up a hill at stop at the top, that would be both kinetic and potential, but it a completely different problem.

Did you mean to reply to someone else, or are you just having a bad day?

 

[SammichLover]

So what do you think I'd think the judge would think?

You'd be lucky if he didn't physically throw something at you. For suggesting what your interpretation is is the "letter" of the law.

"Asinine" is what it is. Not even pedantic, implying some sort of literal validity. Just dumb. By your arguing there's no "gears" in a vehicle with an automatic transmission, either.

 

[SammichLover]

Hardly critical, the formulas are all linear and I ran the numbers with assumptions for grins

Grins? They were all sorts of dumb, riddled with errors both conceptual and specific. You didn't think it through at all, you throw up half baked idea with incorrect numbers, with no real bearing on reality.

If you're on a slope where you've got a terminal velocity around the speed limit there is ZERO reason to shift into a free-spinning neutral because regen isn't being used anyway.

 

[drtimhill]

Nah man its that peddle on the right. (what the heck was I thinking, like spelling break for brake)

I thought it was pedal on the write?

 

[Tron 3]

I'm curious, If on a downgrade and switched into N, gain speed (*potential) and switch into D without any input from the accelerator - Would the car drop into regen?

* using potential energy to feed my battery gives me great pleasure when I see all the brake lights around me light up converting all of the 2 tons of potential into heat at the expense of their brake pads. One pedal driving and egenerative braking is one of my favorite upgrades over all the ICE technology I've driven in 50 years. (My favorite is the instant unbridled acceleration)

 

[SageBrush]

OP: it depends. Can you prove it was by accident ?

 

[caligula666]

That's the thing though, Tesla's do not have shiftable gears. With only one mode of operation, it is impossible to put the transmission or gear box into neutral vs drive so a) does not prohibit you.


If it said "gears, transmission, or motor in neutral", that would cover the Tesla mode of operation. Further, the existence of b) shows that using the clutch while still in gear is allowed for cars. As such, a parallel could be drawn between a Tesla in N (motor disengaged) and a car with the clutch depressed (motor disengaged). However, I think such a link would be erroneous since the clutch automatically engages if the foot is removed, whereas more deliberate action is needed to put the car back into D. Just like it takes an action to put the transmission back into gear.


I was not commenting on the frequency of such grades, only the grade at which steady state speed would be reached. Those were also rough numbers, which is why I listed them out. A lighter car needs more slope, and one lower energy consumption needs less.
There is no assumption about speed at the peak in that calculation. The 3 (or any car) will have a curve of grade vs steady state speed. If it is above that speed, it will slow down if it is below, it will speed up.

Reading this thread long after... But I feel the interpretation battle between what the law says vs. how a Tesla operates (doesn’t have gears, etc.) a bit silly since, if you read the Tesla Owner’s manual Table of Content, it lists the D-N-R-P functions in a chapter called... « Gears » https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf

 

[mongo]

Reading this thread long after... But I feel the interpretation battle between what the law says vs. how a Tesla operates (doesn’t have gears, etc.) a bit silly since, if you read the Tesla Owner’s manual Table of Content, it lists the D-N-R-P functions in a chapter called... « Gears » https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf

Yes to silly, but I hope it was discussion, not battle*.

You correctly point out that Tesla does use 'shifting gears' in the manual, so that hurts my case. However, one could claim that since there are no actual gears shifting, the manual is not meant in the physical sense, but rather the common meaning (changing gea/ direction). So then, is the law common meaning or physical? Interpretation favors the accused, so were one to be pulled into court on such a charge, it may go in their favor due to the law enumerating two items versus a lumped 'vehicle in neutral gear'. The "gears" were not placed in neutral, though the car was shifted to neutral.

If it did not go on their favor, and the selection of neutral when descending grade in a Tesla was deemed illegal, would it then also be illegal to descend a grade knowing that regen was unavailable due to pack temperature or state of charge? That is nearly the same situation (not quite though because acceleration is still available).

Legislators did not envision electric vehicles when the law was made, and it may need revised at some point to better indicate their intent. I'm sure a judge would say I'm wasting the court's time, and I'm likely wasting yours also, so I'll stop here.

* Edit:
Woah... just reread. That was a bit battleish...
The term "escalated quickly" comes to mind.