If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[bhzmark]

upper echleon business people who have high income and high levels of education and knowledge.

Simply put, they are not going to put with this crap.

Absolutely wrong.

The wealthy and well-educated people have better things to do than worry about whether they are getting a few more kW or not ( whether during discharge or supercharge) when neither has any material effect on them.

Just like some people think they will actually ever be affected by the estate tax and so they are outraged at such a tax. Those are usually the less well educated and less well-off.

And you still didn't state a coherent cause of action.

 

[omarsultan]

Still not seeing any throttling--charged at Fremont today with 29% SoC and started off at 97kW, which is about what I would expect. This is on a P85 with 111K miles on it and I SC 1-2 times a week for the last four years.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Still not seeing any throttling--charged at Fremont today with 29% SoC and started off at 97kW, which is about what I would expect. This is on a P85 with 111K miles on it and I SC 1-2 times a week for the last four years.

Well P85's aren't supposed to get throttled but I saw some terrible speeds in Macon, Ga this past weekend. Unpaired. Tried multiple pedestals that were unpaired. Started at 110-115 then dropped to 60 and sat there with a pack that was warm from driving 175+ miles

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I don't think so. From your link:



All you are guaranteed is that you will not ever charge faster than that, it doesn't say a car will always hit those speeds or will ever hit those speeds. It's really talking about the maximum capability of the SC, not the ability of a specific vehicle to utilize all of it. I believe the wording was chosen carefully.

Mine is charging slower than that on what seems like every other super charger

 

[sorka]

I don't think so. From your link:



All you are guaranteed is that you will not ever charge faster than that, it doesn't say a car will always hit those speeds or will ever hit those speeds. It's really talking about the maximum capability of the SC, not the ability of a specific vehicle to utilize all of it. I believe the wording was chosen carefully.

"Up to" implies that it could be done but in my case it can't under any circumstances. By your logic they could as easily say "up to 170 miles in 60 seconds". Nobody would ever get it but using you're logic that's perfectly fine.

 

[stopcrazypp]

"Up to" implies that it could be done but in my case it can't under any circumstances. By your logic they could as easily say "up to 170 miles in 60 seconds". Nobody would ever get it but using you're logic that's perfectly fine.

Well obviously for the 170 miles in 30 minutes number somebody is able to get that rate (a new car, with the right battery, supercharger, and optimal conditions), just not everyone.

I believe that in another version of the page with that stat that applied to only one model (believe it was a 85 kWh non-A version or 90kWh version). Of course all stars have to align to achieve that anyways and in various charts they have added disclaimers along those lines (putting the specific conditions). However, the "up to" and "as little as" pretty much achieve that without having to do that.

Basically what this change amounts to is that it adds another variable (age or usage history) to what is necessary to achieve those numbers.

 

[JRP3]

"Up to" implies that it could be done but in my case it can't under any circumstances. By your logic they could as easily say "up to 170 miles in 60 seconds". Nobody would ever get it but using you're logic that's perfectly fine.

Isn't it true that the vehicles with smaller pack sizes can never hit the maximum charge rate? If so that means brand new cars from the factory will never reach the max charge speed, do those owners then have a complaint?

 

[Galve2000]

To be quite frank, on my end Tesla has handled it just fine with me and I'm ok with my personal situation.

If you don't mind sharing I would love to hear how your case specifically is panning out. How has Tesla "handled it" exactly?

 

[comanchepilot]

Absolutely wrong.

The wealthy and well-educated people have better things to do than worry about whether they are getting a few more kW or not ( whether during discharge or supercharge) when neither has any material effect on them.

Just like some people think they will actually ever be affected by the estate tax and so they are outraged at such a tax. Those are usually the less well educated and less well-off.

And you still didn't state a coherent cause of action.

I will say that I have met those who have heard about Tesla's QC problems - which was the point of that post.

You're right - they don't care about the DETAILS of how many kWh they can charge at - but that was not what I said.

If you'd stop tossing up straw men just to disagree with me - then perhaps we could talk causes of action and substance. But you simply want to disagree with me. I paid for argument, not contradiction.

But the way you post, means that if I set up a 'coherent cause of action,' you'd find a fact to insert which invalidates it. Which is WHY I said that I was not going to prejudge a client's facts. And why I'm playing this game with you any longer. You insert a straw man one more time to just disagree and I'll just block you from being able to respond.

What DOES have a material defect on the wealthy and well-educated is having to mess with bringing a car in for warranty service every 3 weeks - you cannot deny that a decent percentage of those people who are not fan boys will have unnecessary final assembly under warranty and will tell their friends. . . .

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I would speculate that wealthy people are more likely to have packed schedules with a lot less flexibility to be sitting at superchargers, potentially missing or being late for their next critical appointment... But thinking in such collectivist terms is a big problem with our society today... If you're wealthy, you must be X or Y. All wealthy people are this or that... Instead of thinking of people as INDIVIDUALS, where each person's case is unique (which is how we SHOULD be striving to think). But I digress..... sad that the human brain is wired this way and there are segments of society (political/cultural) that leverage this weakness to their advance their goals to the determent of the human race as a whole

 

[DarkMatter]

It is likely that if you are wealthy enough that a ten minute delay at a Supercharger is material to you that you are not driving long distances but instead flying. I do have data to back this assertion up.

This thread has become a bit of a mess because some people are talking about slowed supercharging to protect the pack, and some are talking about it for other reasons such as site or car cooling problems. The second one can result in dramatically decreased rates.

 

[bhzmark]

perhaps we could talk causes of action and substance.

I invite you for the third time to state what is the cause of action and what are the damages underlying your complaint about the supercharger rates?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

It is likely that if you are wealthy enough that a ten minute delay at a Supercharger is material to you that you are not driving long distances but instead flying. I do have data to back this assertion up.

This thread has become a bit of a mess because some people are talking about slowed supercharging to protect the pack, and some are talking about it for other reasons such as site or car cooling problems. The second one can result in dramatically decreased rates.

charging at 60kW at where I was on the pack (approx 10%) is going to result in a much longer session than what was considered "normal before" +10mins... It will more likely result in +20mins or maybe even more. If 20+ doesn't sound like much for one stop, in a few weeks I'm trying to drive from Atlanta to Port of New Orleans (for a cruise) that would compound this issue across each stop there and back. turning 2hrs of supercharging (estimates given by EVTripplanner) to who knows what once we get there. Because we've been seeing much slower SpC'ing rates, we've had to drive down the day before the cruise leaves and rent a hotel room (something we wouldn't do if they got reliable speeds)
I don't care if you're JP Morgan or just a normal guy like me it all starts to add up and take away from the experience we were "sold"... That's a lot more than what Tesla markets on their websites and what their sales people will lead you to believe if you're a prospective new buyer in a showroom. It's misleading. Just like putting 85kWh on the outside of the car when it's really 81 or whatever. It's just shady and in the end will bury Tesla if they don't start being honest... and striving to under-promise and over-deliver vs what their MO has been up to this point which is over-promise and under-deliver.

 

[MP3Mike]

charging at 60kW at where I was on the pack is going to result in a much longer session than a "normal session before all this started"

Charging at 60kW is not what this thread is about at all, that would be something completely different. Also, we haven't seen an 85kWh pack subjected to the new Supercharging curve that gets turned on after a significant number of fast DC charges.

So you likely are either experiencing problems with the Superchargers themselves, or there is something wrong with your car. (Are your cooling louvers opening while you Supercharge?)

 

[comanchepilot]

Question: Is throttling charging going to really hurt Tesla? As the model 3 comes online - there will be intense competition for supercharger slots. Shouldn't they be INCREASING charging speeds to make stops shorter?

Seems like there needs to be a reservation type system at the Superchargers where your car tells the charger system when it is expected to arrive - and if there will be a slot open - and if not - which one to use. This way the system knows if the vehicle plugged in can stay there and fully charge or be kicked off and told to leave the spot and move on to the next supercharger so someone else can charge. . . .

This the most efficient way to run the SC's - and I imagine this will need to be implemented with SC access being scheduled and not random, which means Tesla is going to know your destination as part of the SC network access.

The people Model 3s have to be just average people - given the price point and the number of vehicles sold. They are not to understand the current etiquette. . . . thus - it will need to be imposed.

 

[DarkMatter]

If you are charging at 60kW there is something else wrong. That's not what this thread was originally about. This thread was about throttling the 90kWh packs by instituting a quicker taper.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

If you are charging at 60kW there is something else wrong. That's not what this thread was originally about. This thread was about throttling the 90kWh packs by instituting a quicker taper.

Sorry - there's so many Supercharging is slow threads I started responding/posting to the 90kWh throttle thread, which does appear to be a different (battery chemistry protection?) issue... whereas I guess the overall slower SpC rates for non-90 packs could be a variety of problems folks have speculated (dirt in the car's port, dirt in the SpC handle, worn out SpC hardware, heat, water intrusion, louvers or cooling issues on the cars, etc)

 

[DarkMatter]

No worries. It's a complex system and designed to be opaque, so it's not surprising it comes up fairly often.

 

[sorka]

Well obviously for the 170 miles in 30 minutes number somebody is able to get that rate (a new car, with the right battery, supercharger, and optimal conditions), just not everyone.

I don't believe a single owner of an 85 or 90 car here can report that they got 170 MPH in 30 minutes with the most recent firmware changes.

 

[sorka]

Isn't it true that the vehicles with smaller pack sizes can never hit the maximum charge rate? If so that means brand new cars from the factory will never reach the max charge speed, do those owners then have a complaint?

And 85s and 90s, where the promise was first made appear to not be able to achieve that anymore either with recent firmware updates regardless of how good your battery is.