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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That may have to do with them not selling them anymore (esp. the 85). I take it the 100kWh can still do 170 miles in 30 minutes, which is why it's still there.
It's exactly that because they advertised it. I have 691 reasons why I'm right and you're wrong
That could very well be. Although my point is that it was there when they were selling the 85s and 90s.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
It's exactly that because they advertised it. I have 691 reasons why I'm right and you're wrong
I don't believe you've ever shown wording from Tesla stating promise or guarantee, I think you've simply misinterpreted what was written. Again, if you have evidence supporting your position I would love to see it.
They stated it as fact. If they advertised 691 hp, wouldn't you believe it could make 691 hp?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Not if the qualifiers "up to" were used. That is specific wording with specific meaning or it would not have been included. Ignoring the meaning of those words does not make them go away.
So wouldn't "up to" imply that it could be done?
Funny thing about the use of those qualifiers. It turns out the P85D's maximum horsepower with a 100% charged brand new battery couldn't make more than 463 hp even though they advertised 691. So I totally see where you're coming from
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well when they were selling the 85s and 90s they were able to get the 170 miles in 30 minutes too in a new vehicle. It's just the recent firmware may have changed that (note, I did not follow that thread, so I am trusting what you say is true).
All that statement means is that at the given point in time, one of the new vehicles in the lineup can achieve that maximum rate in optimal conditions.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Possibly, by some vehicles at some point in time, but not necessarily all vehicles at all times and not a guarantee or promise. The HP thing is a specific number for a specific vehicle with no qualifiers so not really the same thing.
Wait, so Tesla can downrate vehicles if they are no longer "top of the line?" Meaning that if a 125 kWh pack is ever introduced then Tesla can change the firmware in the 100 kWh to no longer achieve 170 miles in 30 minutes, and bestow that honor to the 125 kWh?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm not really saying that is okay, just that if Tesla did that, it would not conflict with the given statement. The statement is intended to be broad so that does not tie Tesla to a strict "promise". It's another way of doing advertising without having to write too much fine-print in the disclaimers (that has to be continually updated).
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MarcG
Active Member
I looked back at all my SC sessions to see what's the most I was able to charge in ~30 min, and the most I ever reached in that timeframe was 160 rated miles in 34 minutes.
That was on Firmware 6.1 (2.2.179), starting at an SoC of 7% (17 RM) and ending 69% (177 RM). Supercharger location: Tejon Ranch, CA. Ambient temp: 18ºC (64ºF). Odometer: 8,179.5 miles.
The sessions that lasted exactly 30 minutes yielded 122 to 129 RM.
With recent firmware, I have one session lasting 32 minutes where I charged 135 rated miles on Firmware 8.1 (17.28.4) and the next one up was 39 minutes for 155 RM on Firmware 8.1 (17.16.35). Both sessions started at 10% SoC. Ambient temps in the low 20's ºC (low 70's ºF). Odometer in the 50,000's.
I don't have recent sessions that lasted exactly 30 minutes, but those that were 29 minutes yielded 118-130 RM so similar to above.
Note: all of the above supercharging sessions were not capped by the charger due to heat or another car charging.
@MarcG I don't think the ~170 in ~30 applies to P cars. So you would have to adjust your charging sessions for how many fewer miles you get out of the same kWh as a 85D would get. (Increase them by 7.5%)
So your 30 minutes session that got you 129 miles added ~139 miles for an 85D which would have been what Tesla was talking about.
And how do you know that your charging rate was impacted by heat of the handle and/or the Supercharger cabinet itself?
So your 30 minutes session that got you 129 miles added ~139 miles for an 85D which would have been what Tesla was talking about.
And how do you know that your charging rate was impacted by heat of the handle and/or the Supercharger cabinet itself?
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I got beat to it, but as noted, I don't think the 170 claim was ever applied to a P model. The P models have lower efficiency, which lowers the range you can get for a given amount of energy charged.
MarcG
Active Member
True, I guess the main point of my data is that it didn't seem to have changed much with recent firmware updates.
As for impact of heat, yes there is definitely a slowdown in charge rate when ambient temps are high (above 30ºC/86ºF) but that doesn't apply to the sessions I mentioned above.
Actually, in 2013 Tesla advertised 200 miles in 30 minutes. The 85D didn't even exist at that point.
Supercharger | Tesla Motors
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think that was when they used ideal instead of rated. Someone complained about that and they changed it to 170 (and changed "miles of range" to "miles of range (EPA)"):
Tesla Supercharger page 30 min charge projection lowered from 200 miles to 170 miles
The person who did the complaining was able to get 170 miles (rated) in 30 minutes using a S85 (non-A pack capable of 120kW).
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