If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[Darren S]

Yeah, v1 90kwh packs (or 84kwh packs more like it), aren't getting more than 95kwh charge rates. It just isn't happening. Fun fact, we seem to be down to 76kwh nominal capacity now as well.

Speak for yourself. My 140k miles in 39 months has me down to 69.0 kWh max usable (nominal capacity) ... so basically a 75D including the 4.0 kWh "reserved by Tesla" and a few kWh of safety range but in reality it is more like 68.0 kWh or a 70D as that gives a tiny bit of safety range margin. Anymore, I just end up selecting a 70D in any of the trip planning sites or apps since I can't really drive more than 250 miles on a full charge yet Tesla keeps indicating this is "within tolerance." I'd sure like to know why the v1 battery was never replaced with the v2 or v3 battery though.

When rolling along at 310 Wh/mi that means I only have 219 miles max usable range of the 250-255 miles max range @ 100% SOC. Some of the drives are 320-330 Wh/mi or 206-212 miles of usable range but occasionally some good terrain and weather allows for 270-290 Wh/mi or 234 to 252 miles of usable range but definitely not with A/C running or some elevation gain or highway speeds.

Last week, I charged to 90% (230 miles for me) and did a Wallace, NC to Kill Devil Hills, NC run of 201.3 miles @ 289 Wh/mi in 3:37 hrs using moderate A/C and arrived with 16 miles or 6% remaining.

Then I charged up to 90% which took 65 minutes (charging graph below) and did a Kill Devil Hills, NC to Henderson, NC run of 197.2 miles @ 263 Wh/mi in 3:47 hrs using zero HVAC in 85-90 F temps and arrived with 39 miles or 15% remaining.

The charging session at the month-old Kill Devil Hills shows an initial start of 86 kW in a few minutes but a peak of 95 kW after 20 minutes and started to taper at 42% SOC (???) when 6 months ago or longer it would typically last until ~50-55% SOC before tapering. The next charging session at Henderson was from 15% to 60% and peaked at just 94 kW and started to taper at 45% SOC.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Speak for yourself. My 140k miles in 39 months has me down to 69.0 kWh max usable (nominal capacity) ... so basically a 75D including the 4.0 kWh "reserved by Tesla" and a few kWh of safety range but in reality it is more like 68.0 kWh or a 70D as that gives a tiny bit of safety range margin. Anymore, I just end up selecting a 70D in any of the trip planning sites or apps since I can't really drive more than 250 miles on a full charge yet Tesla keeps indicating this is "within tolerance."...snip....

Thank you for making me feel better about my choice to get the 70D back in 2015 instead of paying the extra premium for the 90D. BTW, I still see 115-116 KW peak SC under the right conditions. Sorry for your degradation. Maybe there’s still time for complete battery failure and a warranty replacement.

 

[Darren S]

Thank you for making me feel better about my choice to get the 70D back in 2015 instead of paying the extra premium for the 90D. BTW, I still see 115-116 KW peak SC under the right conditions. Sorry for your degradation. Maybe there’s still time for complete battery failure and a warranty replacement.

Not a problem. I only wish I would have followed my gut and stuck with the 85D as I wouldn't be in this predicament. Oh well. I'm trying to make the best of it.

 

[supratachophobia]

Speak for yourself. My 140k miles in 39 months has me down to 69.0 kWh max usable (nominal capacity) ... so basically a 75D including the 4.0 kWh "reserved by Tesla" and a few kWh of safety range but in reality it is more like 68.0 kWh or a 70D as that gives a tiny bit of safety range margin. Anymore, I just end up selecting a 70D in any of the trip planning sites or apps since I can't really drive more than 250 miles on a full charge yet Tesla keeps indicating this is "within tolerance." I'd sure like to know why the v1 battery was never replaced with the v2 or v3 battery though.

When rolling along at 310 Wh/mi that means I only have 219 miles max usable range of the 250-255 miles max range @ 100% SOC. Some of the drives are 320-330 Wh/mi or 206-212 miles of usable range but occasionally some good terrain and weather allows for 270-290 Wh/mi or 234 to 252 miles of usable range but definitely not with A/C running or some elevation gain or highway speeds.

Last week, I charged to 90% (230 miles for me) and did a Wallace, NC to Kill Devil Hills, NC run of 201.3 miles @ 289 Wh/mi in 3:37 hrs using moderate A/C and arrived with 16 miles or 6% remaining.

Then I charged up to 90% which took 65 minutes (charging graph below) and did a Kill Devil Hills, NC to Henderson, NC run of 197.2 miles @ 263 Wh/mi in 3:47 hrs using zero HVAC in 85-90 F temps and arrived with 39 miles or 15% remaining.

The charging session at the month-old Kill Devil Hills shows an initial start of 86 kW in a few minutes but a peak of 95 kW after 20 minutes and started to taper at 42% SOC (???) when 6 months ago or longer it would typically last until ~50-55% SOC before tapering. The next charging session at Henderson was from 15% to 60% and peaked at just 94 kW and started to taper at 45% SOC.

View attachment 424945

That's truly awful, especially considering what you paid for the car. I wish someone would go all class action because I'm tired of being lied to.

 

[supratachophobia]

Not a problem. I only wish I would have followed my gut and stuck with the 85D as I wouldn't be in this predicament. Oh well. I'm trying to make the best of it.

Any thoughts about having wk057 throw in a 100kwh pack?

 

[Darren S]

Any thoughts about having wk057 throw in a 100kwh pack?

I'm all for that but it would most certainly void the unlimited mileage warranty on the battery pack so I'll wait to see what Tesla plans to do about it.

 

[Naonak]

Yeah, v1 90kwh packs (or 84kwh packs more like it), aren't getting more than 95kwh charge rates. It just isn't happening. Fun fact, we seem to be down to 76kwh nominal capacity now as well.

90 packs have always had about 78kWh usable energy in them. At least the 4 90 packs I have had. Even brand new they only have 78kWh usable in the real world, regardless of what the BMS reports.

 

[Leloup]

Tesla asking me to participate, let's go:
If you want to keep a storage battery for a very long time, it must be maintained at 20 ° C. In very cold weather and very hot, you lose a little bit in capacity. Here the battery is self-regulating for stay within acceptable temperature ranges.
On the other hand, when one sends a strong current of charge, the internal resistance of the battery heats. The terminals regulate so that there also it remains acceptable. Next there are the secrets of physicochemical manufacture ...

 

[cduzz]

Yeah, v1 90kwh packs (or 84kwh packs more like it), aren't getting more than 95kwh charge rates. It just isn't happening. Fun fact, we seem to be down to 76kwh nominal capacity now as well.

I've got a v1 90kwh pack in my march 2016 S90D.

Car's got roughly 46k miles; I bought it CPO (tesla used so not actually "CPO" since the "certified" is mostly "it is a car") so have no idea how much abuse it's seen but I'm pretty sure it's lived in MA its whole life.

90% is 250 miles; it easily gets rated range on the highway going 70-80mph on typical massachusetts highways.

I sometimes supercharge it and sometimes charge it at home using a 240v/20A charger.

My more typical charge rate is 90kwh, but it will spike to over 100 for minutes at a time or even this...

Ask me again when I'm at 90k or 150k miles? Who knows...

 

[hill]

The 85's were just tanks. They were a new company, so they overbuilt the hell out of them to be sure customers had the best experience. ......snip.....

Here we are just 3 months later. China has a Tesla fire. New software update. Boom shakalaka - 85'ers also are affected. So - welcome to the party.
.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here we are just 3 months later. China has a Tesla fire.
New software update. Boom shakalaka - 85'ers also are affected. So - welcome to the party.

More information on the software update... Tesla owner who saw range slashed by software update filed class action lawsuit - Electrek

Only Model S and Model X vehicles with 85 kWh battery packs, which were discontinued in 2016, seem to be affected at this point. For most owners, the range drop happened after updating to Tesla’s 2019.16.1 and .2 software updates. Tesla owner David Rasmussen got one of the most severe drops we have seen so far. At the time, he told Electrek:

“My 2014 Model S 85 was getting Rated Range of 247 miles until May 13.
Now after the next update, it continued to drop to now 217 miles. This is an 11% drop in 5 weeks.”

 

[Blue Sensation]

Hi everyone. I just got off the phone with Tesla with some disturbing news.

My car has approximately 30,000 miles on it. I regularly use CHADeMo to charge my car, with the occasional Supercharger charge on road trips. On my last road trip, I noticed that my supercharging rate was significantly reduced, usually staying between 75 kw and 90 kw. At first, I thought it was the station, but each Supercharger on my trip had the same behavior. So I bought my car in for service last week.

After the technicians went over the and presumably consulted with the mothership, it was determined that the car has now entered a permanent degraded mode where it will no longer allow fast charging to "prevent battery degradation." Read that again... that's right... if you use Superchargers or any DC Fast Charging, including CHADeMo, your car will eventually enter into a permanently degraded mode that will prevent you from charging your car at reasonably fast speeds.

I am, to say the least, livid. I am waiting for a call back from management, but presumably, they are going to explain to me that there is nothing they can do. This is akin to the Ludicrous launches being restricted, without warning or any communication from Tesla. But this... is much worse.

It's worse because it affects every Tesla vehicle. Every Tesla, not just Ludicrous mode Teslas, will permanently and irrevocably degrade their charging capabilities if you use DC Fast Charging of any kind more than the unusual rare occasion.

I'm honestly speechless at this. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been communicated from Tesla, until now, that using any kind of DCFC will permanently degrade your vehicle. Yes, we all know that charging to 100% regularly is a bad thing, but just regularly DC charging is also apparently just as bad, according to Tesla. But to make matters worse, it's not the battery that's degraded or causing the slow down, it's Tesla's charging algorithm that will slowly start to degrade your charging on each "count" of DCFC. According to the tech I talked to, there is an internal counter that increments each time you DC charge, and once that reaches certain thresholds, it starts restricting your top end charging ability. Presumably, if one keeps charging DC, over time, you will be restricted further and further.

This, ostensibly, to prevent Tesla from having to pay out to replace degraded batteries under their unlimited mile warranty. So over time, it will take longer and longer to charge your car. Already, this adds a significant amount of time to my road trips by restricting my charging from a previous high of 117 kw to ~90 kw on a good day. Road tripping in my Telsa already takes 2x as long as a gas car, but now it's taking even longer. I can't imagine wanting to take this car on any further road trips at this point.

Tesla needs to do something about this. This is not ok. It is not ok to remove critical functionality from the vehicle, every vehicle, without warning and without prior notice. I simply would not have purchased this car if I was informed that it would lose the ability to charge the battery over time, especially such a short time frame (1 year / 30k miles).

 

[Blue Sensation]

100kwh battery packs will not have this speed restriction as they will receive as fast as the battery will take it.

 

[tga]

100kwh battery packs will not have this speed restriction as they will receive as fast as the battery will take it.

Total speculation with 0 facts or data to back it up...

 

[gangzoom]

100kwh battery packs will not have this speed restriction as they will receive as fast as the battery will take it.

They do and are restricted, all Tesla packs are affected.

 

[hill]

100kwh battery packs will not have this speed restriction as they will receive as fast as the battery will take it.

Hypothetically, 2 years from now, when Tesla finds it to their benefit to assure the 100kWh battery lasts a really really long time - but for some yet to be discovered (claimed) risk down the road, Tesla finds it in their best interest .... so they do one of their infamous software grenade updates, surprise surprise you have only 290 miles of range. I hope that mental wondering isn't a sort of time capsule - to be opened in the not-too-distant future.
Nah, nothing like that could ever happen.

Makes me wonder also how long the hypothetical may take until the model 3 faces these kinds of (potential) remedial actions . We Model S & X owners are the minority now. Wait until musk's programmers screw over 100's of thousands of model 3 owners. That's when the wheel will really start to squeak.
.

 

[hill]

When the model 3 charging speed was revealed using the Rev 2 supercharger, we felt a tad bit exasperated, having paid a whole lot more for our model X (& the S prior to that) - with it's ghosting windshield, 4 month wait to replace a loose headliner, yellow screen border, ½ shaft shudder, frequent display blackouts etc. But now that I realize the model 3's chargespeed advantage on the Rev 2 supercharger, once they to begin to get throttled won't be such an advantage after all.
Wish tesla could have told us this stuff right up front.
.

 

[TSLC]

Totally agree. It is no fun to discover that a car (S75D) touted to last and perform for multiple hundreds of thousands of miles is nerfed to 80kW peak charge speeds after 20K miles of fast charging is pretty frustrating especially when great care has been taken to charge within the appropriate specified range for optimal battery life.

This after sales indicates that the car is safe to fast charge frequently and often. They goofed on some of these things (non automotive grade touchscreens and parts, random software updates nerfing performance to reduce warranty costs, redefining FSD randomly, redefining defects vs cosmetic or claiming “no impact to functionality”) and customers pay the price.

Communication is pretty poor at Tesla.

 

[Pruitt]

Has anyone considered filing a class action suit for what Tesla has done to the charging capability for the early 90 kw batteries? I know at least two people with cars so equipped who might be interested in joining...

 

[Blue Sensation]

I'm happy with my Tesla model S.