If you had a choice: Acceleration or Distance?

[Red Sage]

This is actually a misconception that runs rampant on these forums. You don't need a bigger battery capacity to push performance. You simply need a higher amp draw, better cooling. This is simply the way Tesla has marketed the cars. The larger capacity battery packs happen to have higher voltage.

Compared to a P90DL the Zombie 222, for example, has much quicker acceleration (sub 2 second), much faster top speed (177mph+), and the battery capacity is very small. It can provide 400v at 3840 amps for 10 seconds.

Yeah... the Zombie 222 also has a range so short, they won't quote it (50 miles, if you're lucky). This is even worse than the Mercedes-AMG SLS Electric Drive and Rimac Concept One which don't even manage half the range of the Tesla Roadster, but cost anywhere from 4-to-8 times as much. The Zombie 222 is as much a guzzler of electrons as a Mustang is a guzzler of gasoline. Trust that when Tesla Motors releases a sub-2.5 second car, it will also have a 200+ mile range as well. That is a good thing.

 

[Red Sage]

I'll take the extra range, even if it is just 10% or so. I'll take as a given that "Tesla doesn't make slow cars" — my plain old S60 certainly isn't "slow" — so I'd much rather have a Model 3 that was designed for range than a Ludicrous version, even if the latter was at no extra cost.

The good news is that all Tesla Motors products are 'designed for range'.

 

[Red Sage]

EaglesPDX: I believe that what someone is attempting to communicate is that the pretty red up arrow (↑) next to someone's name in the header of a quoted passage is a link that directs you to the original post that is being quoted, so that it may be read in context.

 

[Mark C]

To add a slightly different concern here, how will we know the price of admission for any of the options? IOW, if asked, "Would you like to upgrade to the bigger battery?, click here" and/or "Would you like the really high output version?, click here." Will I know what the items cost before I click here?

I ask this because I decided to look at configuring a Model S on the Tesla site to get a "feel" for how it was done and noted that when I added options, I saw no evidence of how much more I was spending. Maybe you could use the logic, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it," but I would like to know if my upgrade paint color costs $495, which I'd pay, or $1795, which would make me uncheck that selection, and so on until I hit the end of my budget.

Or, did I make a mistake in what I was doing on configuring? I did stop before I needed to have them e-mail me a quote, just in case some zealous employee wanted to occasionally ping me to see if I was ready to order my new S.

 

[Booga]

To add a slightly different concern here, how will we know the price of admission for any of the options? IOW, if asked, "Would you like to upgrade to the bigger battery?, click here" and/or "Would you like the really high output version?, click here." Will I know what the items cost before I click here?

I ask this because I decided to look at configuring a Model S on the Tesla site to get a "feel" for how it was done and noted that when I added options, I saw no evidence of how much more I was spending. Maybe you could use the logic, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it," but I would like to know if my upgrade paint color costs $495, which I'd pay, or $1795, which would make me uncheck that selection, and so on until I hit the end of my budget.

Or, did I make a mistake in what I was doing on configuring? I did stop before I needed to have them e-mail me a quote, just in case some zealous employee wanted to occasionally ping me to see if I was ready to order my new S.

Try changing your payment method to cash purchase and you'll see how it impacts your purchase price.

 

[ummgood]

To add a slightly different concern here, how will we know the price of admission for any of the options? IOW, if asked, "Would you like to upgrade to the bigger battery?, click here" and/or "Would you like the really high output version?, click here." Will I know what the items cost before I click here?

I ask this because I decided to look at configuring a Model S on the Tesla site to get a "feel" for how it was done and noted that when I added options, I saw no evidence of how much more I was spending. Maybe you could use the logic, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it," but I would like to know if my upgrade paint color costs $495, which I'd pay, or $1795, which would make me uncheck that selection, and so on until I hit the end of my budget.

Or, did I make a mistake in what I was doing on configuring? I did stop before I needed to have them e-mail me a quote, just in case some zealous employee wanted to occasionally ping me to see if I was ready to order my new S.

Are you using a computer or tablet/phone? On the computer if you click on an upgrade the price is next to the item after you click on it. For example wheels are $4500. Paint is $1000 etc... Also if you click on the cash tab to the right you can see the total cost go up/down based on how you click.

 

[dgpcolorado]

The good news is that all Tesla Motors products are 'designed for range'.

And they are all 'designed for performance' too!

The performance of a sub 6 second base model is plenty quick enough for me so I'd rather have increased range. Where the OP's question misses the mark is that the enhancements would come from such things as motor size (power) and gearing, not a difference in the battery pack, although one could design a battery to boost performance at the cost of reduced range.

I suggest that those who haven't driven a Tesla before take a test drive and have the Tesla representative dial the car down to base S performance (yes, they can do that). Or take a drive in an S60 if you know anyone with one. You might end up surprised how quick the base model really is. The friends who have driven my car certainly were impressed.

 

[JeffK]

And they are all 'designed for performance' too!

The performance of a sub 6 second base model is plenty quick enough for me so I'd rather have increased range. Where the OP's question misses the mark is that the enhancements would come from such things as motor size (power) and gearing, not a difference in the battery pack, although one could design a battery to boost performance at the cost of reduced range.

I suggest that those who haven't driven a Tesla before take a test drive and have the Tesla representative dial the car down to base S performance (yes, they can do that). Or take a drive in an S60 if you know anyone with one. You might end up surprised how quick the base model really is. The friends who have driven my car certainly were impressed.

See the problem here is the general public will always ask about ludicrous mode. When you say you don't have it there might be some semblance of disappointment and a slight loss of any bad ass street cred you may have accrued.

 

[ccutrer]

See the problem here is the general public will always ask about ludicrous mode. When you say you don't have it there might be some semblance of disappointment and a slight loss of any bad ass street cred you may have accrued.

I had this happen yesterday. At lunch two teenagers walked by and started taking pictures of my X right as I was walking out. They asked "is this a P85D?" I just laughed and said "no, but it's still plenty fast." I didn't bother explaining that the X was never built in an 85kWh configuration, cause obviously they didn't know the difference between an S and an X, just that Teslas are fast. I could have said whatever I wanted about it performance wise, and they still would have been drooling. Now, my coworkers that want an S or X themselves... They know the difference.

 

[EaglesPDX]

IHonestly this car is probably my last hurrah before I have 3 kids go into college.

As someone on his third Last Hurrah, don't sell out too early or wait too long. If someone doesn't need the range and wants the acceleration, nothing provides it better than a Tesla and the T3 will do its part to provide.

 

[ummgood]

As someone on his third Last Hurrah, don't sell out too early or wait too long. If someone doesn't need the range and wants the acceleration, nothing provides it better than a Tesla and the T3 will do its part to provide.

Thanks!

Honestly after my kids are out of college my plan is to sell my house in the burbs (because it is way too much maintenance) and then buy something in the city center. My hope is to go from 3600sq ft down to 1200sq ft. Then we'll consolidate down to one car. After my kids get out of college I'll walk to work because I work downtown and my wife can have the car if she needs it. So my next car will probably have to be something she'll be willing to drive. Personally I am hoping she'll fall in love with my Model 3 but by then we'll probably be looking at a small CUV because she likes bigger cars and the Model 3 will probably not be high enough for her taste.

 

[Luke42]

Our Mazda5 has a 0-60 time of around 9 seconds. It's plenty fast for my purposes.

The announced 6-second 0-60 time for the base Model 3 will be fun sometimes, but I'll rarely use it.

I'd rather have a long range than fast acceleration.

 

[Booga]

Our Mazda5 has a 0-60 time of around 9 seconds. It's plenty fast for my purposes.

The announced 6-second 0-60 time for the base Model 3 will be fun sometimes, but I'll rarely use it.

I'd rather have a long range than fast acceleration.

This is exactly it. I'm coming from an even slower Honda Civic. The additional acceleration is great and the instant torque is one thing I really enjoy about electric vehicles, but I don't need any more acceleration. Increased range is going to give me flexibility to drive my car, which is sporty, but is not a sports car. The flexibility allows me to make long road trips with ease (the ability to skip superchargers, stop wherever I want for meals, etc.) and just need to think about charging less often.

As another post mentioned in this thread, this might be driven by motor choice and gearing - I would prefer choices that will maximize range without sacrificing acceleration too much.

 

[Red Sage]

I'd rather have a long range than fast acceleration.

Once again... All of Tesla Motors' vehicles will be long range. Those ranges will only grow as time goes by. You don't have to choose between acceleration and range, despite the query that started this thread.

Your actual choice is based upon what speed you would like to drive at for long distances. The first four, five, six, seven, eight, or nine seconds of acceleration will have far less effect on your range than the speed you set the cruise control at. Set it to 80, 90, or 100 MPH and your range will be significantly less than if you drove at 70, 60, or 50 MPH instead. That is due to the increase in wind resistance, which cannot be avoided, as it increases substantially with speed.

I would love to be able to set the cruise control at 85 MPH and be then cover 500-to-530 highway miles before having to stop to 'refuel'. Of course, only one ICE vehicle I've ever owned was capable of that type of range, so I know I can get by with quite a bit less. If we presume that would be around 370-to-430 Wh per mile of energy consumption... We are talking about from 185 kWh to 228 kWh expended to cover the distance. Somehow, I think we won't be seeing a battery pack offered in the 230 kWh to 285 kWh range for well over a decade -- beyond 2030 at least. So, the reality is that I won't be able to do that for some time.

Yes, the Model ☰ will be a very aerodynamically slippery car. That doesn't change the fact that driving at speed is what reduces range by the greatest amount. You want to go further, in any car, drive slower. All the official crash safety tests conducted around the world are at 45 MPH or less anyway. Of course, the grand majority of fatal car crashes in the US take place at less than 40 MPH as well... And, as speed limits have been increased nationwide, highway fatalities have gone down.

So, I suggest that those who want 'more range' commit to driving at around 5 MPH below the posted speed limit. The great thing about acceleration in a Tesla Motors vehicle is that you can choose to do it anyway you want. The car may be capable of 0-to-60 MPH in under 6 seconds... But you can still do it in 9 seconds or more if you prefer. If you want to drive it like a Civic, LEAF, or Corolla? You can. No one is stopping you. Least of all, Tesla Motors.

 

[CHG-ON]

Acceleration. Duh.

What else do I live for?

 

[Red Sage]

This is exactly it. I'm coming from an even slower Honda Civic. The additional acceleration is great and the instant torque is one thing I really enjoy about electric vehicles, but I don't need any more acceleration. Increased range is going to give me flexibility to drive my car, which is sporty, but is not a sports car. The flexibility allows me to make long road trips with ease (the ability to skip superchargers, stop wherever I want for meals, etc.) and just need to think about charging less often.

As another post mentioned in this thread, this might be driven by motor choice and gearing - I would prefer choices that will maximize range without sacrificing acceleration too much.

You already have all the flexibility you need. It exists in your ankle, heel, and toe. How you decide to apply the GO Pedal on the right determines your range. That is the choice that lies before you. That has always been the case. The difference really is that with an electric car, the distance you cover -- either way -- is further for the energy you expend.

Most people realize this after they own a Tesla Motors product. Range is not really a problem at all. Charging on he road is not a chore. And really, once the available energy reserve exceeds the equivalent of four gallons of gasoline, at around 135 kWh or so... and maybe as little as 120 kWh...? I hope that these discussions will end, once and for all, for anyone who drives at actual, posted speed limits.

 

[EaglesPDX]

How you decide to apply the GO Pedal on the right determines your range.

Nope. The car has a range based upon standards that allow comparison which are posted online at FuelEconomy.gov.

Tesla current ranges are posted there and buy Tesla on their website. T3 is currently set for a base rating of 218 mile range. Hopefully their will be a battery upgrade for the 250 range, what I would consider a minimum.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Acceleration. Duh.

What else do I live for?

Great statement.

 

[JeffK]

Nope. The car has a range based upon standards that allow comparison which are posted online at FuelEconomy.gov.

You misunderstand the post by Red Sage. Those numbers are based on a strict set of tests done by the EPA. they are NOT necessarily a representation of the range you will get. If you think otherwise then you should explain this:
Norwegian hypermiler drives Tesla 452 miles on a single charge

 

[Booga]

You already have all the flexibility you need. It exists in your ankle, heel, and toe. How you decide to apply the GO Pedal on the right determines your range. That is the choice that lies before you. That has always been the case. The difference really is that with an electric car, the distance you cover -- either way -- is further for the energy you expend.

Most people realize this after they own a Tesla Motors product. Range is not really a problem at all. Charging on he road is not a chore. And really, once the available energy reserve exceeds the equivalent of four gallons of gasoline, at around 135 kWh or so... and maybe as little as 120 kWh...? I hope that these discussions will end, once and for all, for anyone who drives at actual, posted speed limits.

You're probably right about this and so I can't comment too much until I actually get my Tesla next year, but I agree on the driver being a big impact on actual distance covered between charges. In highway travel, this ability is a little limited, because you want to be going with the traffic to avoid an accident by going too slow to conserve power though.