Indicated Rated Range lower than it should be - Australian Experience

[lennier]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but can't find a local thread about it.

Is everyone seeing Rated Range displays that are consistent with claimed specs for their model (eg, 390km for S60, 502km for S85 etc)? My understanding is that in the absence of any capacity degradation these should be pretty much what you see (or pro-rated for less than 100% SOC) within a few km at most.

I ask because my car has consistently, from day 1, reported only 370km maximum Rated Range. This is a full 5% capacity difference - roughly $4k worth going by 90D upgrade costs - and to my way of thinking not normal or acceptable. It has to be either out of spec capacity on the battery pack or some sort of calibration issue as far as I can see.

I'm talking to Tesla about it, but interested in whether anyone else has seen similar. All reports I can find in the forum of Rated Range are always at or very close to the factory spec in the absence of age degradation.

 

[meloccom]

I charge my car to "90%" each time and currently it charges to 435KM before hitting the Charge Complete limit.
I have never charged to the rated 502Km, the closest I got was about 495Km at the Star Supercharger once when the car was less than a week old, but I lost patience and stopped.
The 90% cut off has changed only a little over the life of the car.
At first it charged to 435 then slowly went down to 433/2 and I assumed this was due to degradation.
Then IIRC at the Installation of 6.2 it went up to 437 and has since reduced to 435 again.
However 502Km X 90% = 451.8Km which it has never achieved.
I don't think the Rated Range can be used as a measurement of capacity or capacity loss.
Just my experience, I don't have a technical explanation of why the above has happened.

 

[brewster]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but can't find a local thread about it.

Is everyone seeing Rated Range displays that are consistent with claimed specs for their model (eg, 390km for S60, 502km for S85 etc)? My understanding is that in the absence of any capacity degradation these should be pretty much what you see (or pro-rated for less than 100% SOC) within a few km at most.

I ask because my car has consistently, from day 1, reported only 370km maximum Rated Range. This is a full 5% capacity difference - roughly $4k worth going by 90D upgrade costs - and to my way of thinking not normal or acceptable. It has to be either out of spec capacity on the battery pack or some sort of calibration issue as far as I can see.

I'm talking to Tesla about it, but interested in whether anyone else has seen similar. All reports I can find in the forum of Rated Range are always at or very close to the factory spec in the absence of age degradation.

So you have charged to the full 100% which apparently balances the battery pack which has been shown to return some extra km of range? Per Tesla Youtuber KManAuto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrIdbM_T4Gw
I don't think this has been ratified by Tesla however.

 

[lennier]

So you have charged to the full 100% which apparently balances the battery pack which has been shown to return some extra km of range? Per Tesla Youtuber KManAuto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrIdbM_T4Gw
I don't think this has been ratified by Tesla however.

Yes did this for the trip last weekend, which is one of the reasons I've waited until now to raise this with Tesla. Was thinking it may be a calibration issue which the range charges would resolve, but no noticeable change at all.

Thanks for the info Meloccom, it seems your experience is different to most as well - ie raynewman recently indicated he sees the expected 502km rated reported when he charges 100%.

 

[raynewman]

Yes did this for the trip last weekend, which is one of the reasons I've waited until now to raise this with Tesla. Was thinking it may be a calibration issue which the range charges would resolve, but no noticeable change at all.

Thanks for the info Meloccom, it seems your experience is different to most as well - ie raynewman recently indicated he sees the expected 502km rated reported when he charges 100%.

The 502 was with the Rated/Typical toggle set to Rated. I found this to be unrealistic so I have changed to Typical. Currently doing a range charge and will report when done.

 

[raynewman]

Just did a range charge (car at 9500 + KM) and got Rated/Typical of 500/400 exactly for this charge. I typically range charge 5% of the time.

 

[lennier]

Just did a range charge (car at 9500 + KM) and got Rated/Typical of 500/400 exactly for this charge. I typically range charge 5% of the time.

Thanks Ray!

 

[Dborn]

Just charged my car to 88%. Gave me 347 km. calculating it out, 100% rated 494 and typical 394. The 347 is what I routinely get when I charge to this level. Won't be doing a range charge anytime soon to check actual, but it seems that I don't get the advertised ranges, regardless.

 

[doctorwho]

I fully charge for my long trips, it usually gives me a rated range of 402km, I'm left with around 30-40km rated range at my destination so I'm not happy to charge less than a full range charge in winter, at least not until the Seymour and Wodonga chargers are there. The full charge typical range does vary somewhat though, I've had 403 down to 395km.

 

[raynewman]

To add confusion, I just charged to 90% (typical) and got the following results:

Charging completed at 2:40 with battery at 361 km
Charging interrupted at 3:38 with battery at 356 km
unplugged the power
Charging completed at 3:38 with battery at 360 km
Still at 3:38, I looked at the dash which displayed 360 km
Looked away, looked back then displayed 362 km

seems a bit random.

 

[Matteo]

Hi Lennier,

If you enter your data to the battery survey in my signature, you can then go to charts page and compare your capacity to other users. The survey doesn't use NEDC rated range (which is what you have in Australia) because most people use typical range because it is more realistic. For example for the S85, 400km typical range is closer to actual range than 502km NEDC rated range. By the way Typical range & NEDC rated range combination is used everywhere outside North America. Therefore you can compare your car to S60s in Europe.

One of the questions in the survey is, "What was 100% typical range when car was new?" Then the next question asks whether range mode was on or off when that number was read. Only one S60 owner answered that question and said 286 km, range mode off. With range mode on that number would be 290. Here is a video that shows how range mode affects range: Tesla Model S - Range mode on/off during Supercharging - YouTube I think when the car was new, an S60 should display 290 km typical range with range mode on.

Edit:
There is actually more data in the survey. I extracted all S60 entries outside North America. This is the data people entered. I hope you know what your typical range was/is. Otherwise this isn't going to help.

username	mileage km	typical range km (range mode on)
Forza	2300	290
CarlosW	15300	288
Xfrank	19700	288
Xfrank	14995	287
TTheo	9161	283
Xfrank	23373	282
Louis	33000	280
Xfrank	35900	279
jpgrolle	37069	278
Xfrank	31000	277
TTheo	14267	275
Xfrank	27120	275
TTheo	18793	275

 

[Keiron]

Hi Guys
My recent experience is as follows:
1. A 85KwHr cell has got a USEABLE 76,500WattHrs of charge.
2. The Dandenong - Bendigo -Dandenong round trip I did recently required 68.450Kwhrs of charge to cover 408Kms. Average charge for propulsion approx 185Watts per Km linear given its a 650 meter rise over the trip. Traveling at exactly speed limit the entire trip I got back with 38Kms on the clock( although I was a bit nervous), therefore 7.66KwHrs of available charge left at that point.
3. Overall average for 408Kms was a combined 185W/Km and thus the MAXIMUM range under these conditions is 446Km when charged to 100%.

Weather was a nice 17Deg C and aircon was run on eco at 20.0C- No rain and almost no wind.

Given my impatient nature I will let someone else work out the range extension combinations at lower speeds :biggrin:

As an aside: I can state with certainty that the 135MPH or 217Km/Hr top speed limiter works.(unfortunately):scared:

 

[meloccom]

I charge my car to "90%" each time and currently it charges to 435KM before hitting the Charge Complete limit.
I have never charged to the rated 502Km, the closest I got was about 495Km at the Star Supercharger once when the car was less than a week old, but I lost patience and stopped.
The 90% cut off has changed only a little over the life of the car.
At first it charged to 435 then slowly went down to 433/2 and I assumed this was due to degradation.
Then IIRC at the Installation of 6.2 it went up to 437 and has since reduced to 435 again.,.
However 502Km X 90% = 451.8Km which it has never achieved.
I don't think the Rated Range can be used as a measurement of capacity or capacity loss.
Just my experience, I don't have a technical explanation of why the above has happened.

So did my very first range charge to 100%. The app prediction of "charge remaining" ran out with the Rated Range at 484 Km or 483.8 from Visible Tesla. The car continued to charge for a full half hour longer but the numbers did not move making me think that it was balancing the pack at that point.
On the road within half an hour of the completion of the charge and had a bit of a moment going down the first hill with almost zero regeneration. :scared: Will report back to see if the full charge makes any difference to the standard 90% charge.

- - - Edit - - -

Charged to standard 90% overnight and - nothing changed, still 435km.

 

[jayemcee]

Hi Guys
My recent experience is as follows:
1. A 85KwHr cell has got a USEABLE 76,500WattHrs of charge.
2. The Dandenong - Bendigo -Dandenong round trip I did recently required 68.450Kwhrs of charge to cover 408Kms. Average charge for propulsion approx 185Watts per Km linear given its a 650 meter rise over the trip. Traveling at exactly speed limit the entire trip I got back with 38Kms on the clock( although I was a bit nervous), therefore 7.66KwHrs of available charge left at that point.
3. Overall average for 408Kms was a combined 185W/Km and thus the MAXIMUM range under these conditions is 446Km when charged to 100%.

Weather was a nice 17Deg C and aircon was run on eco at 20.0C- No rain and almost no wind.

Given my impatient nature I will let someone else work out the range extension combinations at lower speeds :biggrin:

As an aside: I can state with certainty that the 135MPH or 217Km/Hr top speed limiter works.(unfortunately):scared:

I meant to reply directly to you with the following, but ended up (as a silly newbie) posting elsewhere. Anyway, I'd meant to ask and to say: -

Keiron - can you tell me what you're driving? I am resident in Bendigo, and travel quite a bit to Melbourne and suburbs. I have a P85D on order ... curious as to your experiences of Dandenong-Bendigo return that you've described here ... If you ever found yourself caught short in Bendigo, I could probably help you out with the Tesla home charger I have installed, about which I presently know very little. Feel free to drop me a line. I'm a long time lurker here, and have only just signed up so as to be able to post.

 

[Keiron]

Gudday Jayemcee !

Great to hear your a P85D buyer. Interestingly the tyres/rim combination makes a surprising amount of difference in the 'D'. The design studio suggests that best case for a P85D has a NEDC range of 528Kms- translated down that's probably real world as about 462-470Kms on a run Bendigo to Melbourne surburbs etc cruising at speed limit the whole time.

You have an enormous advantage in that when you zoom around town in Melbourne you can pop into TESLA Richmond and super charge in minutes!. I wasnt convinced that I would ever go out of my way for a charge but I have now made my way to richmond several times having seriously pushed the range within a given day. My record is a total of 635kms in a day with a top up at richmond on my way to Rosebud. That was also the day I tested top speed.....

As for a top up at the Bendigo end - why not- would love to drop in and visit another Tesla Nut- aren't well all.

I have suggested via the open letter that Higgy put together for Tesla USA Rollout that Bendigo be a Super charger site for the Central Victoria Zone. Havent heard back on that one yet.

Having racked up about 18,000 + Kms I can say shes still the ''Beast" I fell in love with. Not the slightest suggestion of a problem so far and according to Tesla Service centre in Richmond I treat my Model S more harshly than any other owner- not necessarily deliberately but just the factors given the territory's I cover and the many crappy roads.
Its gotta be bulletproof to be on my team... so the saying goes..:biggrin:

 

[timpoo]

just did Melbourne to Geelong and back. Beautiful day 18c outside, hit the magical 181wh/km. For last 50km even got down to 179wh/km.

95% highway cruising at around 103km/hr.

Incidentally I went past the "check your speed" on the highway and it showed 102km/hr when my dash showed 103, so it's pretty accurate.

 

[brewster]

just did Melbourne to Geelong and back. Beautiful day 18c outside, hit the magical 181wh/km. For last 50km even got down to 179wh/km.

95% highway cruising at around 103km/hr.

Incidentally I went past the "check your speed" on the highway and it showed 102km/hr when my dash showed 103, so it's pretty accurate.

Great to know. I always check on that one as well, on my frequent trips to Melbourne.
.

 

[Keiron]

Gudday Timpoo

Yep checked mine too 101 indicated verified as 100 Real. Comforting knowing the attitude of lack of argue-ability with speed cameras.

 

[jayemcee]

Gudday Jayemcee !

Great to hear your a P85D buyer. Interestingly the tyres/rim combination makes a surprising amount of difference in the 'D'. The design studio suggests that best case for a P85D has a NEDC range of 528Kms- translated down that's probably real world as about 462-470Kms on a run Bendigo to Melbourne surburbs etc cruising at speed limit the whole time.

You have an enormous advantage in that when you zoom around town in Melbourne you can pop into TESLA Richmond and super charge in minutes!. I wasnt convinced that I would ever go out of my way for a charge but I have now made my way to richmond several times having seriously pushed the range within a given day. My record is a total of 635kms in a day with a top up at richmond on my way to Rosebud. That was also the day I tested top speed.....

As for a top up at the Bendigo end - why not- would love to drop in and visit another Tesla Nut- aren't well all.

I have suggested via the open letter that Higgy put together for Tesla USA Rollout that Bendigo be a Super charger site for the Central Victoria Zone. Havent heard back on that one yet.

Having racked up about 18,000 + Kms I can say shes still the ''Beast" I fell in love with. Not the slightest suggestion of a problem so far and according to Tesla Service centre in Richmond I treat my Model S more harshly than any other owner- not necessarily deliberately but just the factors given the territory's I cover and the many crappy roads.
Its gotta be bulletproof to be on my team... so the saying goes..:biggrin:

Thanks, Keiron - interesting experiences you've had. I have only yet driven to Melbourne a couple of times. I am driving Bendigo to Melbourne again tomorrow. I have topped up at Richmond, and found that convenient and quick. I am still less than 2000 kms, so still working things out here, but enjoying the car immensely. If you do happen to find yourself in Bendigo, drop me a line - I work locally as a lawyer, and if you can source an alphabetical directory, my firm's the first listed. The J Mc gives a good clue, too ...

Safe travels!

 

[doctorwho]

I regularly drive from Melbourne to the Ovens Valley, a 320km trip. We do a full range charge with a typical range of around 394km. We consistently arrive at the destination with a typical range of 40-70km typical range. This suggests a reliable 400km typical range in winter, perhaps a little ore in summer. I've been doing a near weekly full range charge (and will need to until the Seymour chargers open - that's why I've kept going on about them). My initial typical range was 403km, it suddenly dropped after about a month but has been stable since then.
This seems to be completely as expected.