Ingenext Boost Modules [aftermarket]

[MikeyC]

I guess it's possible that there is a limit on the amount of energy you can draw out of the battery (or deliver to the motors) over a given time. Since the P dumps a lot of power off the line, the higher RPM range might be limited in the amount of power that can be drawn. The LR+boost having not "stressed" the motors/battery early on... is free to apply a bit more power later on.

It may not even be a software limitation but a hardware limitation. Throwing the P's energy at the motor down low might heat up the motor/battery/electronics, making them less efficient: then when the same amount of energy is applied in both P and LR+ on the higher end, the P just ends up converting less of that energy to acceleration.

Just a wild speculation.

Mike

 

[alexiscool]

I guess it's possible that there is a limit on the amount of energy you can draw out of the battery (or deliver to the motors) over a given time. Since the P dumps a lot of power off the line, the higher RPM range might be limited in the amount of power that can be drawn. The LR+boost having not "stressed" the motors/battery early on... is free to apply a bit more power later on.

It may not even be a software limitation but a hardware limitation. Throwing the P's energy at the motor down low might heat up the motor/battery/electronics, making them less efficient: then when the same amount of energy is applied in both P and LR+ on the higher end, the P just ends up converting less of that energy to acceleration.

Just a wild speculation.

Mike

That could be tested/ruled out with a short 100-120mph pull between LR+ and P. I've seen a few videos online of even a non-boost LR vs. P starting at 80mph (so both cars are coasting at the time), and while accelerating they either stay even or the LR starts to pull later on. Carwow did a video recently where they captured that. I figured in that video it might just be a small SoC difference that Carwow wasn't paying attention to, because LR at 95% would definitely pull more at 100mph+ compared to P at 90%. But otherwise, it sure seemed to be consistent with what we're seeing with the faster LR+ trap speeds.

 

[MikeyC]

Well, I can only think of three things that could make one car faster than the other at higher speed: less weight, less aerodynamic drag, or more power. I doubt aero wheel covers can make enough difference in drag and from the specs, it looks like the LR+ should only be about 10 pounds lighter. Or... maybe only fat people drive the P+ cars?

Mike

 

[MagnusMako]

Well, I can only think of three things that could make one car faster than the other at higher speed: less weight, less aerodynamic drag, or more power. I doubt aero wheel covers can make enough difference in drag and from the specs, it looks like the LR+ should only be about 10 pounds lighter. Or... maybe only fat people drive the P+ cars?

Mike

Well all of those things can be ruled out since none of the variables changed when I flashed my car into a Performance. I'm more inclined to believe your theory that there's a hardware limitation due to how the power is put down, which is then controlled / throttled by software.

Isn’t the reason why P traps lower speed is because it covers more distance quicker early on, which gives it less distance later to build speed before 1/4 mi is hit?

Something about “time to distance” vs. “time to speed”. In other words, I’d assume the P must hit 120 in less time compared to LR+AB, otherwise the LR+AB would be confirmed to make more total power (not peak) at throughout the run. Can anyone test this?

If the car is covering more distance earlier on then that means it's going higher speeds at shorter distances and it then has more distance to build more speed. The quicker the car, the higher the trap speed should be, with all things equal. If that is not the case, then it means there is something else going on.

 

[Mash]

Well all of those things can be ruled out since none of the variables changed when I flashed my car into a Performance. I'm more inclined to believe your theory that there's a hardware limitation due to how the power is put down, which is then controlled / throttled by software.



If the car is covering more distance earlier on then that means it's going higher speeds at shorter distances and it then has more distance to build more speed. The quicker the car, the higher the trap speed should be, with all things equal. If that is not the case, then it means there is something else going on.

Power delivery is not linear. ICE cars have much higher trap speed with the same 1/4 time. Also its completely possible if P has more low speed power - it will have higher average speed over distance, but can have lower trap speed.

 

[MagnusMako]

Power delivery is not linear. ICE cars have much higher trap speed with the same 1/4 time. Also its completely possible if P has more low speed power - it will have higher average speed over distance, but can have lower trap speed.

We know the power delivery is not linear between the P and the LR. That's already been established here. The question is why and how.

 

[MikeyC]

We know the power delivery is not linear between the P and the LR. That's already been established here. The question is why and how.

I agree with prior sentiments: we need an overlay of the P and LR+ through the entire RPM range. That won't answer the why but it would at least confirm/deny that the LR+ delivers more power on the top end and tell us where the curves cross if they do.

Mike

 

[Krash]

We know the power delivery is not linear between the P and the LR. That's already been established here. The question is why and how.

To price differentiate the cars. Different max torque and max power settings.

 

[MikeyC]

To price differentiate the cars. Different max torque and max power settings.

I'd accept that on the low end. But why give the LR+ more torque on the high end?

Mike

 

[Krash]

I'd accept that on the low end. But why give the LR+ more torque on the high end?

Mike

https://imgur.com/a/s87VuMS

More torque than what? Tesla only uses two levers: max torque and max power. As you look at power over time and speed (left to right) the cars first have a different rate of change of power (fixed torque), then a different max power, then the motors limits are reached.

 

[alexiscool]

More torque than what? Tesla only uses two levers: max torque and max power. As you look at power over time and speed (left to right) the cars first have a different rate of change of power (fixed torque), then a different max power, then the motors limits are reached.

That’s true, but there’s a discrepancy with the LR+ consistently accelerating faster than P after (what seems like) 100mph. That graph I posted only gathers P data up to 99mph, as inconveniently coincidental as that is.

I think we all agree it doesn’t make sense for LR+ to be faster up top, given it’s supposed to have the same motor limits as P. And maybe it does, but perhaps P for whatever reason actually degrades even harder than the motor limit up top, due to something we don’t yet understand.

Still seems very weird, but unless all LR+ owners are consistently using higher SoC than P owners during drag races, or have lighter drivers, or lower wind resistance (which would be improbable to happen consistently from a random sample), then there’s not much left to explain why LR+ accelerates faster.

 

[MikeyC]

I'm starting to think it might be heat related. With the P dumping so much power at the start, the motors might get hot and that might limit what is available later on. The only problem with that theory is the roll race from 70 MPH done by carwow. In that race, the P and LR were dead even at 70 MPH and by 90-100 MPH, the LR started pulling ahead. You would think by the time they did a 70 MPH rolling race, both cars would have cooled off.

Mike

 

[MagnusMako]

To price differentiate the cars. Different max torque and max power settings.

How would giving LR more max power on the top and the P less count as "price differentiation"? That makes no sense and I don't think you're following this thread.

 

[Krash]

How would giving LR more max power on the top and the P less count as "price differentiation"? That makes no sense and I don't think you're following this thread.

It wouldn't. My response was to "power delivery is not linear between the P and the LR...The question is why and how."

As to whether the LR has more max power than the P, according to the data supplied by alexiscool, it doesn't. The P power is always higher than the other models until the point at which the lower models max power setting hits the limits of the motor at a given state of charge, at which point they are the same.

 

[Knightshade]

It is true that the P might have additional weight from additional inverter electronics, but I doubt anyone can tell.

The P and an LR with a 980 have exactly the same inverter electronics.

 

[Krash]

The P and an LR with a 980 have exactly the same inverter electronics.

Oh yeah. Wiring should be the same too. As mentioned, tire and wheel mass maybe since the cars are rarely traction limited? My point is that data shows the P always generates more power. There can't be a mystery power boost above 100pmh. The motors are already at their design limits at that point.

 

[alexiscool]

Oh yeah. Wiring should be the same too. As mentioned, tire and wheel mass maybe since the cars are rarely traction limited? My point is that data shows the P always generates more power. There can't be a mystery power boost above 100pmh. The motors are already at their design limits at that point.

Not a boost above 100mph for LR+, but further degradation of P. In other words, more of a decrease to P than the natural motor limit decrease, whereas LR+ sticks to natural motor limit decrease.

I agree it makes little sense, but we’re just tossing around theories here until someone actually gets the data above 100mph for P.

To clarify, only reason this discussion exists is due to the countless anecdotes of P being slower up top compared to LR+ (this includes Stealth Ps where tires/wheels are the same as LR+). From a random sampling of runs, we should expect to see the opposite 50% of the time too, but so far that hasn’t been the case.

MagnusMako’s runs are the best example of this phenomenon, as he had used Ingenext’s Ghost re-flash to go from LR+ to P with the exact same car.

 

[Krash]

Not a boost above 100mph for LR+, but further degradation of P. In other words, more of a decrease to P than the natural motor limit decrease, whereas LR+ sticks to natural motor limit decrease.

I agree it makes little sense, but we’re just tossing around theories here until someone actually gets the data above 100mph for P...

Thanks for the clarification. I look forward to seeing any data.

What about thermal limits? CANBus data would show if the higher torque and power of the P can overwhelm the cooling.

 

[scarpiamod3]

But the RWD SR model has a boost from this third party vendor?

They do, the SR+ boost is 50hp, the product they are talking about is boost 150hp. Both of these products require the 980 motor the 150 only works on the LR AWD with the 980.

I hope they get more than 50 later on, I was always curious how much tesla is limiting these cars.

Fingers crossed they can get 100hp out of the 980 but I am probably dreaming.

It looks like Tesla ordered a ton of 980s and put them in everything until they got stock of the other motors. Mine is a 2020 and it has the 980, the 21's have the 990.....sucks for them.

 

[coolmanfever]

got my tire change today. Manage to confirm that I have 980 motor for my model 3 SR+.

For those of you installed the boost 50, Do you guys think the product and installation is worth it? Any regrets installing it?

Lastly, the company advertised reduce 0-60 by 0.6 sec. Does your car actually feel THAT much faster in real driving situation on the road?

BOOST SR FOR TESLA MODEL 3

The Boost SR module increases the performance of the Tesla Model 3 SR+ with the 980 motor. Compatible with : Tesla model 3 SR + with the 980 motor Not compatible with : LFP battery and/or 990 motor / Tesla Model 3 LR RWD You'll be able to reduce 0-60 MPH by 0.6 secondes. Total power: increase...

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