IRS definitions of what's a car vs SUV by manufacturer for $55k vs $80k price limit

[mongo]

My theories:
- The ID4 is heavier and thus qualifies as an SUV
- The Model Y 7 seater qualifies as a van

If it only had 2 seats, it would be a van.
If it has 3 rows and 2 fold, it's an SUV (one basis, there are others)

Relevant laws:
Vehicle types: 40 CFR § 600.002 - Definitions.
Light truck/ non-passenger automobile: 49 CFR § 523.5 - Non-passenger automobile.

General note: the IRS list is manufacturer supplied, not Treasury sourced.

 

[flgatorfan]

If it only had 2 seats, it would be a van.
If it has 3 rows and 2 fold, it's an SUV (one basis, there are others)

Relevant laws:
Vehicle types: 40 CFR § 600.002 - Definitions.
Light truck/ non-passenger automobile: 49 CFR § 523.5 - Non-passenger automobile.

General note: the IRS list is manufacturer supplied, not Treasury sourced.

The confusing thing is there must be multiple bases being used. If three rows make something a SUV okay, but then another basis must apply to the five seat VW products that have the 80k cap.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

Wait, who is paying $70k?I got mine for $55490 yesterday(ordered in march).

Rounding to the nearest K, I pretty much did.

 

[Happy Hippo]

Rounding to the nearest K, I pretty much did.

Ohh that is a lot..

 

[FFCars]

Wait, who is paying $70k?I got mine for $55490 yesterday(ordered in march).

What was your out-the-door cost? If that’s your MSRP, you’re close to $60k. And if you live in New York, I bet you make more than the income limits to be able to but a Tesla.

 

[Happy Hippo]

What was your out-the-door cost? If that’s your MSRP, you’re close to $60k. And if you live in New York, I bet you make more than the income limits to be able to but a Tesla.

yep. It was about $63k. I was making sure I could take delivery in December for that extra incentive.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

With the income limits, I don’t think many Tesla buyers will get the credit anyway. Who buys a $70k car if they make less than $150k per year? That wouldn’t be too smart.

Yeah - I tend to agree. People forget the income limits which will mostly exclude the mid to upper range Tesla buyer anyway.

I was drooling over the $4k used-electric rebate till I noticed the (much lower) income limits on it and had to discard my evil plan to pick up a $12k used Leaf as a city-car at a cost of $8k. Not gonna happen. Sigh.

 

[yobigd20]

With the income limits, I don’t think many Tesla buyers will get the credit anyway. Who buys a $70k car if they make less than $150k per year? That wouldn’t be too smart.

Lots of people. Loooots.

 

[acpd]

With the income limits, I don’t think many Tesla buyers will get the credit anyway. Who buys a $70k car if they make less than $150k per year? That wouldn’t be too smart.

Which is why $55k limit makes perfect sense. This would give middle class additional $7,500 credit on sub $55k car, so they would end up paying less than $48k + Taxes. If Tesla wants that market share, they better come up with sub $55k MY.

 

[240vPlug]

Tesla has some tough choices to make. I say make 7 seat standard across the line and let folks opt out if they want. That would be cheaper than discounting the 5 seat models to qualify for the credit. Tesla has a bit of a demand problem so they need incentives.

 

[acpd]

Tesla has some tough choices to make. I say make 7 seat standard across the line and let folks opt out if they want. That would be cheaper than discounting the 5 seat models to qualify for the credit. Tesla has a bit of a demand problem so they need incentives.

Where would they put new AWD version that has 279 miles of range? Of course it will be cheaper that LR version. So likely at sub $55k. That would give Tesla option to put MYLR at a bit higher price point.

 

[SageBrush]

Between software unlocks and vestigial 7 seater configs, I don't see EV manufactures being much encumbered by the 55/80 msrp limits. Moreover, $55k is well within market pricing when supply chain disruption is not wrecking havoc.

This is all a nothing burger, if not today then in the near future. I think a much more important discussion is whether the income limits have inflation adjustments

 

[teaseng]

I suggest you do it the other way 'round. Wait to see how it plays out for as long as possible before canceling.

Yup you’re right. I’ll see if anything changes with Tesla in the next few days before cancelling. Had a 7 seater on order in may and finally caved and changed my order to a 5 seater in the last week and a half trying to get the 7.5k credit but that got delayed again and they finally issued a vin yesterday. Worst luck possible.

 

[mongo]

The confusing thing is there must be multiple bases being used. If three rows make something a SUV okay, but then another basis must apply to the five seat VW products that have the 80k cap.

The link to the definition of light truck lists them all.

 

[mongo]

Between software unlocks and vestigial 7 seater configs, I don't see EV manufactures being much encumbered by the 55/80 msrp limits. Moreover, $55k is well within market pricing when supply chain disruption is not wrecking havoc.

This is all a nothing burger, if not today then in the near future. I think a much more important discussion is whether the income limits have inflation adjustments

The catch there may be the "physically attached" when it arrives as the dealer coverage. The full pack is atttached, for instance. Wheels/tires and hitch can be swapped though.

The MSRP for this purpose is the base retail price suggested by the manufacturer, plus the retail price suggested by the manufacturer for each accessory or item of optional equipment physically attached to the vehicle at the time of delivery to the dealer. It does not include destination charges or optional items added by the dealer, or taxes and fees.

 

[240vPlug]

Where would they put new AWD version that has 279 miles of range? Of course it will be cheaper that LR version. So likely at sub $55k. That would give Tesla option to put MYLR at a bit higher price point.

Good question. They would have to discount it 5k (I believe its currently $59,990) or they could add the 3rd row and eat the $3,000. Still cheaper to just put in the 3rd row than discount the cars ...at least on the surface appears that way.

Even if a buyer has to pay the $3,000 and the tax credit after March is only $3,750 your still gaining $750 assuming you have enough tax liability by ordering it with a 7 seat config. Right now I think 7 seat only available on long range. Tesla should either make it standard or make it optional on all. Maybe there is a middle ground. Make it optional on all and discount the option by 50%?

 

[Hiline]

With the income limits, I don’t think many Tesla buyers will get the credit anyway. Who buys a $70k car if they make less than $150k per year? That wouldn’t be too smart.

Enough for Tesla to have to discount by $7.5k and add 10k supercharging miles to keep people from holding or cancelling their orders.

Between various state incentives and fuel savings, buying an EV can be very economical if you drive a lot.

 

[mongo]

With the income limits, I don’t think many Tesla buyers will get the credit anyway. Who buys a $70k car if they make less than $150k per year? That wouldn’t be too smart.

$150k for single filers, $300k for joint.
Even at $150k, that's $112k excluding state income tax, $105k or so with.
$8,750 a month net
$1,250 retirement (10% gross)
$2,500 housing
$400 utilities
$1,400 auto loan (70k loan @ 4.5% + 6% sales tax)
$200 insurance
Leaves $3k a month ($100 a day) for rest of expenses

 

[VT_EE]

Yup you’re right. I’ll see if anything changes with Tesla in the next few days before cancelling. Had a 7 seater on order in may and finally caved and changed my order to a 5 seater in the last week and a half trying to get the 7.5k credit but that got delayed again and they finally issued a vin yesterday. Worst luck possible.

Sounds like you need to change your order again to get the tax break. Don't worry, you won't be the only person doing this.

 

[yobigd20]

$150k for single filers, $300k for joint.
Even at $150k, that's $112k excluding state income tax, $105k or so with.
$8,750 a month net
$1,250 retirement (10% gross)
$2,500 housing
$400 utilities
$1,400 auto loan (70k loan @ 4.5% + 6% sales tax)
$200 insurance
Leaves $3k a month ($100 a day) for rest of expenses

Food for family of 4/5 easily costs $2k-$3k/month. My electric bill alone is double that ~$800/month. You're forgetting phones. Thats another $200/month. Prop/school taxes, thats another $1k a month. Tuition? I'm not even touching all the little things that add up in daily life.