Is 350 KW charging possible for current model 3s?

[scaesare]

Google "Musk 350kW supercharger", lots of hits.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/19/tesla-supercharger-expansion-v3-delayed-elon-musk/

Yeah, the "350KW is a mere toy" quote has been around a bit, but there was also some discussion that he could have been referring to the Megacharger that the semi's could use.

The Electrek articles don't provide a quote for the 200-250KW piece... and I don't remember that being said in the call they reference.... so wondering how much of a rumor mill that is.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I'm curious how many V3 Superchargers have already been built, as in, SCs that have come online recently, and perhaps Tesla is just collecting data from them at the moment, and they are software-locked to current Supercharger specs.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, the "350KW is a mere toy" quote has been around a bit, but there was also some discussion that he could have been referring to the Megacharger that the semi's could use.

The Electrek articles don't provide a quote for the 200-250KW piece... and I don't remember that being said in the call they reference.... so wondering how much of a rumor mill that is.

It was said on the call. Transcripts are available online.


Here's his exact words in answer to a question about the 350 rate and where he mentions 200-250 is more likely.

Well, we're definitely going to be improving our Supercharger technology. The thing about a 350-kilowatt charger is it doesn't actually make a ton of sense unless you've got a monster battery pack or have like a crazy high C-rate, in which case your energy density is going to be poor. So it's kind of cockamamie. Yes, I think maybe 200 -- on a -- also I don't know if you meant 350 kilowatts for a single car. That's really pretty -- you're going to frag the battery pack if you do that. There's no -- you cannot charge a high-energy battery pack at that rate unless it's a very high kilowatt-hour battery pack. So something along the -- yes, I think -- J.B., like a couple hundred -- 200, 250, maybe...

 

[Big Earl]

200, 250 maybe ... so probably 150 - 180 kW on today's vehicles.

 

[scaesare]

It was said on the call. Transcripts are available online.


Here's his exact words in answer to a question about the 350 rate and where he mentions 200-250 is more likely.

Ah cool... thanks.

So he refers to the issue of the Supercharger capacity not being the same as the maximum single-car charge rate.

So when he says "There's no -- you cannot charge a high-energy battery pack at that rate unless it's a very high kilowatt-hour battery pack. So something along the -- yes, I think -- J.B., like a couple hundred -- 200, 250, maybe...", it sounds like he could be talking about the single car charging rate.

Thus the supercharger itself could be spec'ed higher than that single car rate... although in today's architecture, the Supercharger rating is only about 20% more than the single car charge rating... I wonder if v3 will change that.

 

[Knightshade]

Thus the supercharger itself could be spec'ed higher than that single car rate... although in today's architecture, the Supercharger rating is only about 20% more than the single car charge rating... I wonder if v3 will change that.

Given how much faster Tesla sales are going than new SC locations I'd certainly hope so, as getting a stall to yourself is gonna be a rare thing in a lot of places.

 

[Aellinsar]

200, 250 maybe ... so probably 150 - 180 kW on today's vehicles.

Hopefully that's int he cold as well. I had to use a SC on Sunday and only got 30-31 kW (<50% state of charge, only one on the charger, tried a second charger, etc.)

 

[Big Earl]

Hopefully that's int he cold as well. I had to use a SC on Sunday and only got 30-31 kW (<50% state of charge, only one on the charger, tried a second charger, etc.)

The Supercharging infrastructure has no effect cold weather charging speed... it's all about the car's battery temperature. In very cold weather, it can take up to two hours of highway driving to get the battery pack warm enough to charge at full speed.

 

[ℬête Noire]

200, 250 maybe ... so probably 150 - 180 kW on today's vehicles.

Ability to output 250kW would be kick-butt if they stay with pairing on the intercity SC. That means that the older vehicles would be able to both draw full rate even when splitting a pair. HUGE improvement so no vehicles would get left out on the improvements, and also be a far less clogging factor.

A corollarily question would then be, will the Urban SC stay capped at 72kW or will there be a 3.0 Urban SC configuration, too?

 

[SageBrush]

Thus the supercharger itself could be spec'ed higher than that single car rate... although in today's architecture, the Supercharger rating is only about 20% more than the single car charge rating... I wonder if v3 will change that.

That is my guess too. Give Model 3 a ~ 20% boost in maximum charge rate up to 45% SoC and improve the throughput at Superchargers.

I already strive to leave the Supercharger by 50% SoC and I think a higher charge rate as described above will reinforce the behavior.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That is my guess too. Give Model 3 a ~ 20% boost in maximum charge rate up to 45% SoC and improve the throughput at Superchargers.

I already strive to leave the Supercharger by 50% SoC and I think a higher charge rate as described above will reinforce the behavior.

If they could lower the 0-50% SoC time, that would also change people's behaviors.

On the East Coast, I like to charge to 80% and skip a SuC or 2.....

so now, would it make more sense to leave at 50% and make the hop to the next SuC, or would it make sense to stay until 80% and skip a stop or 2.....

would be interesting to see the time savings for each of those scenarios based on potential new charging curves.

 

[Big Earl]

Ability to output 250kW would be kick-butt if they stay with pairing on the intercity SC. That means that the older vehicles would be able to both draw full rate even when splitting a pair. HUGE improvement so no vehicles would get left out on the improvements, and also be a far less clogging factor.

A corollarily question would then be, will the Urban SC stay capped at 72kW or will there be a 3.0 Urban SC configuration, too?

I don't think urban Superchargers will change. 72 kW is a good consistent speed for people who want to do a little shopping or run other errands while in town. It's also better for battery longevity.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I don't think urban Superchargers will change. 72 kW is a good consistent speed for people who want to do a little shopping or run other errands while in town. It's also better for battery longevity.

But it almost certainly that number because it was 50% of the full kW available to a traditional SC pair. Same gear, just programmed to maintain a 50/50 split no matter what. If V3 because the new standard in gear it seems plausible that Urban SC will follow in some way. Also, as batteries are able to [safely] charge faster the gap between inter-city SC and Urban SC will become more pronounced. Along with lower charge rate means an exponential increase in congestion.

P.S. Pet peeve, in by-minute states it cost at least 50% more to take your battery from 10% to 80% because of how close, yet over, the ceiling is to the 60kW rate transition of per min rates.

 

[Nate977p]

Hopefully that's int he cold as well. I had to use a SC on Sunday and only got 30-31 kW (<50% state of charge, only one on the charger, tried a second charger, etc.)

I thought this was just us... The GF and I in the past week or two have been seeing a cap at 32kw at all different SoC on two different 3s. This has been at several different SCs. And the cars were warm ..

 

[Nate977p]

I don't think urban Superchargers will change. 72 kW is a good consistent speed for people who want to do a little shopping or run other errands while in town. It's also better for battery longevity.

I actually wish the was a 3rd class, something like extraurban. There is a garage right by our apartment in Boston (South Bay Center for locals). There is an AMC there that we bought the monthly pass for, but a movie typically is a 2.5 hour affair. We get our cars to the SC at low SoC (Typically 5-20%; we don't have reliable home charging) and want to see a movie, but either are jerks that block the chargers and get charged. We try to go later, but it's hard. Even getting dinner we have had times we get warned for idle...

The garage has L2, but that is much too slow. Something like L2+ would be amazing, where it is 2-3 hours for a full charge (10-90%) for those large shopping areas that it takes time to transverse, or to see a movie!

 

[Big Earl]

I actually wish the was a 3rd class, something like extraurban. There is a garage right by our apartment in Boston (South Bay Center for locals). There is an AMC there that we bought the monthly pass for, but a movie typically is a 2.5 hour affair. We get our cars to the SC at low SoC (Typically 5-20%; we don't have reliable home charging) and want to see a movie, but either are jerks that block the chargers and get charged. We try to go later, but it's hard. Even getting dinner we have had times we get warned for idle...

The garage has L2, but that is much too slow. Something like L2+ would be amazing, where it is 2-3 hours for a full charge (10-90%) for those large shopping areas that it takes time to transverse, or to see a movie!

Some of these public L2 installations are pretty weak. Most of the ones around here are only 30 amps on 208 volts, which frequently droops to 200 volts, only providing 6 kW. More 48 amp L2 stations would be nice, although that still leaves a pretty big performance gap between L2 and urban superchargers. Europe is on the ball with 22 kW L2 charging, although Model 3 can only do 11 kW max.