Is $9k worth 310 miles v 220?

[dm33]

I do not see it worth $9,000.

Of course if money were no object then get every option.

The model 3 was supposed to be affordable. The price increase from $35,000 to $44,000 is huge. It’s close to 30% of the initial value of the car. Look at how that changes the cars you can get for that price.

Add in auto pilot and any non black paint even without the extra range and your already at $41,000. That is getting to be a seriously expensive car. Add in extra range you’re at $50,000. For the affordable car.

How about AWD, sunroof, performance edition. You’ll now start getting close to or passing the price of a base model S.

And to those that think you’ll keep this car forever, EVs and Tesla’s in particular are changing rapidly. You’ll miss out on AP3, even longer range. AWD if you buy now.

I fully expect that FSD will require upgraded hardware for AP3.

Then there’s the model Y that may suit people better.

Innovation is far from over in Tesla’s. This is not like buying a ford. It’s like buying an iPhone. It would be silly to max out an iPhone and think you’ll keep it for 10 years. You may be better off thinking of it as a lease even if purchased and sell it every few years and get the latest and greatest. Then again it becomes how much money youre willing to spend as an annuity.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Do you have any evidence that 40-70 makes a difference? From what I have seen, there is already a margin of error built into only charging to 80.

I'm sure there is a margin of error built in but I plan on having this car for a decade or more. If I don't need 80% on a regular basis...and I don't, then why push it?

Dan

 

[gregincal]

Short trips in cold weather will have more of a range penalty than long trips in cold weather, as the energy required to get the cabin and battery up to temperature will be amortized across a greater distance on a longer trip.

Luckily range doesn’t matter for short trips.

 

[gregincal]

I'm sure there is a margin of error built in but I plan on having this car for a decade or more. If I don't need 80% on a regular basis...and I don't, then why push it?

Dan

But if it means you’ve spent an extra 9k for that reason (as you suggested in your previous post) it’s a total false economy. You be far better saving the money and charging to higher levels.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

But if it means you’ve spent an extra 9k for that reason (as you suggested in your previous post) it’s a total false economy. You be far better saving the money and charging to higher levels.

Not if it results in twice the degradation over time (or whatever the difference is). Call it piece of mind.

To each his own (the Tesla moto!)

Dan

 

[gregincal]

Not if it results in twice the degradation over time (or whatever the difference is). Call it piece of mind.

To each his own (the Tesla moto!)

Dan

But it doesn't. The difference in degradation would be very minor.

 

[d21mike]

The range difference between the MX 75D and 100D is only 52 miles but the cost difference is $16k. So the $9k for 90 miles is a steal!

I agree with this. But let me add more. I got my car Sept. 28, 2017. Before I placed my order in Late July 2017 the price difference was $24k. And I said no way would I pay that. Then once I decided I wanted a Tesla the price difference for a 75D vs 100D (they were still selling the 75) was $20. Still I felt it was too much. This post is saying the current difference is $16k which to me would still be too much. I think had it been $10k at the time of my order I would have gotten it (I think). In my consideration they also reduced the 0-60 time of the 75D 1 second so got much closer to the 100D. Lastly, my car is EPA Rated 259. Also, keep in mind that you may never see the RATED Miles when you do a charge. I am consistently 7-8 miles below what the Rate Miles should be, In another post "what is your 90%, I see other with build dates around my car with the same thing. Of course this is not you actually miles you get which is based on many factors. My in town is much much less but my highway is close if on a normal trip running not much higher then then speed limit.

I do not commute for work. I work from home. So for me it is only on Road Trips which I do not take that many. I think if you really like road trips then I you would like the extra range. So, based on your budget and your use of the car you are really the main person to make this decision.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

But it doesn't. The difference in degradation would be very minor.

Well, that might be true, I don't know. Again, consider it piece of mind then. Also the fact I can get the long range about 6 months before standard range weighs a little on this too.

Dan

 

[thefortunes]

Sorry, my 50% claim was a bit pessimistic for most winter temps, but it was relevant for a couple of reasons. One, the OP might take trips to cold climates. Two, other people in cold climates might be reading this thread. (1) Short trips in cold weather will have more of a range penalty than long trips in cold weather, as the energy required to get the cabin and battery up to temperature will be amortized across a greater distance on a longer trip. (2)

Here are a few more data points that have been posted in other threads.

by @jdw

(3)
by @appleguru

(1) Agree 100%, that's why I am disputing your "50%" and try to inform others when FUD is presented.
(2) If someone is only doing short trips, then range really doesn't matter. If it still does, then turn range mode on which limits battery heat.
(3) These actually support my numbers, LOL. The first one shows a 20-34% reduction in efficiency just above and below freezing, while the second shows a 10-24% reduction.

Finally, since it was 36F on my drive this morning I was curious:

 

[RyanS]

I never trust EPA or advertised range for EVs. Realistic useful range would be at around 60-70%. As many have stated, you never get 220miles. Tesla wants you to charge 90% for longer battery life. Plus, battery age, weather, highway speed, and etc.... Plus you will never drive until zero miles or %. Less than 50 miles range, you will start experiencing range anxiety (unless you are heading home or to charging station). So realistic range would be less than 150miles for a smaller battery. Get the biggest battery (you can afford) or you will regret.

 

[jgs]

This is not like buying a ford. It’s like buying an iPhone.

If that's your psychology, I suppose that would be true.

From my PoV, it's exactly like buying a Ford. But then again, it's also exactly like buying an iPhone -- I don't upgrade my phone, my computer, or my car just because it's no longer the newest and shiniest model. In each case, if it continues to do the job I bought it for, I keep using it. For phones and computers, this is complicated by the need to interact with networked stuff, so the old machine may genuinely become unable to do the job it was purchased for. In the case of a car, the closest analogue of "networked stuff" is "the roads", and... those aren't changing very fast.

I see no reason to believe I won't be able to continue enjoying my Model S for years to come. But of course, if you're the kind of person who needs the newest, then you do you.

 

[thefortunes]

I never trust EPA or advertised range for EVs. Realistic useful range would be at around 60-70%. As many have stated, you never get 220miles. Tesla wants you to charge 90% for longer battery life. Plus, battery age, weather, highway speed, and etc.... Plus you will never drive until zero miles or %. Less than 50 miles range, you will start experiencing range anxiety (unless you are heading home or to charging station). So realistic range would be less than 150miles for a smaller battery. Get the biggest battery (you can afford) or you will regret.

In my post directly above yours I showed that on my drive today (average speed 52mph, 36F weather) I ran 96% efficiency vs rated.

I typically charge to 80% (since I don't need any more) but will certainly charge to 100% if necessary and have run my battery down to 1-2% when needed.

Even with 102k on my S85, I still have 250 miles of rated range.

Taking all that into account my available real range today (in 36F weather, with 102k on the clock) would be 245 miles vs the beginning rated range of 265 miles or 92%. Significantly more than 60-70% as you seem to think.

 

[gregincal]

I never trust EPA or advertised range for EVs. Realistic useful range would be at around 60-70%. As many have stated, you never get 220miles. Tesla wants you to charge 90% for longer battery life. Plus, battery age, weather, highway speed, and etc.... Plus you will never drive until zero miles or %. Less than 50 miles range, you will start experiencing range anxiety (unless you are heading home or to charging station). So realistic range would be less than 150miles for a smaller battery. Get the biggest battery (you can afford) or you will regret.

Even if everything you say is true, what you are saying is that the Model 3 SR can absolutely go 150 miles in any conditions without any worries. And 150 is definitely enough to get you from supercharger to supercharger, so that seems fine. 150 miles is actually quite a long distance.

 

[SMAlset]

We try to keep our S75D SOC in the 20-80% range most of the time. Our 80% charge rated range is averaging around 201-202 miles lately. We mostly drive locally during the week (shopping, errands and meals out) and charge at home so lack of range on our 75D isn't really a daily issue for us. However we also can run up and down the Bay Area in one day on the weekend and frequently get close to our 20% SOC which is easy to do here given the distances driven. Of course we are lucky that there are a number of Supercharger locations in the Bay and shopping centers that have added L2 chargers to get a quick charge so really never a big problem. I will say though that it would be nice to run a full day and not have any in between charging regardless of where we need to go. We love our MS. Our only kind of regret is not having bought a 100D which didn't come out until a number of months later. We're on the reserved list for a Model 3 and definitely going for the LR battery on this vehicle.

We'll use our more limited range Model S for longer road trips for the space and comfort factor. We love driving it and it will be my husband's preferred ride going to the office and his errands. On the long-distance trips we've taken so far in it, Supercharging hasn't been a problem and it does give us a needed break to stretch our legs and grab a bite so kind of feel that range is perfect for our needs in those situations.

 

[timk225]

I'd like the big battery, but for $9000? HELL NO. That's $150 per month extra in the car payment!

Math it out, and explain to me how the extra cells in the big battery are worth $9000. If the difference in the number of battery cells between a small and big battery were truly worth $9000, then the entire battery assembly would cost over half the price of a Model 3.

Tesla is just using the big battery as a money grab. I am willing to bet that the extra materials and assembly cost for a big battery compared to a small one is under $2000. Leaving over $7000 as obscene PROFIT. And they adjust the motor controller to give better 0-60 times as an enticement. The small battery can do 0-60 just as well if Tesla would let it.

If the big battery were a $3000 to $4000 option, I would seriously consider it, but no chance in hell at $9000.

 

[Big Earl]

Even if everything you say is true, what you are saying is that the Model 3 SR can absolutely go 150 miles in any conditions without any worries. And 150 is definitely enough to get you from supercharger to supercharger, so that seems fine. 150 miles is actually quite a long distance.

Well... sort of. When going Supercharger to Supercharger, trips are fastest when you run the battery in the 10% - 80% range, as going above 80% takes a significant amount of time and going below 10% doesn’t leave you much room for what-ifs. 220*.7 = 154 rated. 154*.7 for weather = 108. This is probably a worst-case scenario in terms of trip range, plus you can always charge high than 80% if you really need to.

It’s certainly capable of long trips, thanks to the Supercharger network, but it will definitely take more time. If you don’t take long trips frequently and don’t mind spending a little extra time charging, save the $9K and go for the short range battery pack.

 

[thebigbobowski]

I'd like the big battery, but for $9000? HELL NO. That's $150 per month extra in the car payment!

Math it out, and explain to me how the extra cells in the big battery are worth $9000. If the difference in the number of battery cells between a small and big battery were truly worth $9000, then the entire battery assembly would cost over half the price of a Model 3.

Tesla is just using the big battery as a money grab. I am willing to bet that the extra materials and assembly cost for a big battery compared to a small one is under $2000. Leaving over $7000 as obscene PROFIT. And they adjust the motor controller to give better 0-60 times as an enticement. The small battery can do 0-60 just as well if Tesla would let it.

If the big battery were a $3000 to $4000 option, I would seriously consider it, but no chance in hell at $9000.

What if the big battery were a $5,250 option? Because that's what it might end up being. If they push the SR battery to later in the year, as has been rumored, then the full tax credit (U.S.) will be gone when most of us are able to purchase. That means if you have an early reservation, you could get the LR and the full tax credit—meaning you spend $9000 extra dollars but get $3,750 extra back compared to waiting for SR.

I didn't want to spend the extra for LR, but if it means I get it for $5,250, I'm seriously considering it. This all depends on when the SR is available, of course. Hopefully Tesla lets us know their plans on the earnings call in February.

 

[Eclectic]

Luckily range doesn’t matter for short trips.

That's what I used to think.

At this point my P85D has a typical rated range of about 220 miles at 90%. I've had to run out from my house to the SF airport (100 miles roundtrip), then do some errands and that gets me pretty damn close to zero range left. Having to supercharge during the day when you've had a few "short trips" is not ideal. The extra range comes in handy even when you're not doing road trips.

 

[BerTX]

I have a MS75D. If Tesla offered me 110 more miles of range for $9k, my pen would catch fire from writing the check so fast.

 

[jjrad]

Is it worth $9k to get 90 miles more? Is there other differences? Does not seem so and seems pricey. My fear is this price may drop.

Are most people getting SR or LR? It's like I want the car now bad so LR but $9k is a lot.

Yes- if you can afford it Keep in mind you usually charge to 85% and you don’t go below 20% So on the SR battery you really On have range of about 130 miles In mountains or cold weather even less Day to Day OK but not ideal. The 3 is great but significantly better with larger battery.