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Is a lack of instrumentation dangerous?

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my only remote concern with Tesla vehicles - and I guess all vehicles connected to a network - is the potential for hackers to infiltrate the car and somehow take control of the vehicle. Like, could a car be taken over by a hacker remotely while it's doing 60-70 mph down the highway, cruising through the city, or started up from a parking spot and used to hit or run over someone?

I'm not a developer, but would love some tech insight into how easy/difficult it would be to do this, and how hacks like those done by Tencent were accomplished.
It's extremely difficult to hack a vehicle and take full control of it. Even if a hacker somehow get access the vehicle, the different systems on the Tesla are separated. So to have full control of the vehicle would be nearly impossible.
 
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My thoughts on this are that it's a lot easier to do that in the movies and on TV than in real life.

However, if that becomes widely possible exploiting some sort of hole, Tesla has a big advantage over everyone (as has already happened, twice I believe): At the first indication there's a problem, e.g., one car being hacked somewhere in the world, Tesla can figure out the problem and the patch and get the update out to ALL Tesla cars very quickly, over the air, while the owners sleep or whatever. Timing being a few days to a week.

TL;DR: 1) Yes in TV, not likely in real life; 2) Tesla's fix would be near-immediate

[EDIT: I should mention re the already-occurred hacks of a Model S: one was by a security company, informed Tesla of the opening, all cars updated within a few days. I don't remember the circumstances of the other but the car wasn't stolen or controlled.]
Team of hackers take remote control of Tesla Model S from 12 miles away

I think you're referring to this, where a team of hackers was able to access some functions of the Tesla. However, they were only able to do this because it was connected to a specific Wi-Fi hotspot that they had access of. So a word of advice is don't connect to random wifis.
 
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Is the <$40,000 M3 a death trap?

No. All the driver info is still conveniently located just right of the steering wheel within easy glance for the driver. Plus, if you check out the touch screen sim, you can do most things with just 1-2 touches, much easier than turning knobs. I think the Model 3 will actually reduce distractions because there are no buttons to worry about and no instrument panel in front of you to distract you, the driver can focus on the road better.
 
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Team of hackers take remote control of Tesla Model S from 12 miles away

I think you're referring to this, where a team of hackers was able to access some functions of the Tesla. However, they were only able to do this because it was connected to a specific Wi-Fi hotspot that they had access of. So a word of advice is don't connect to random wifis.
No, I actually hadn't heard of that one -- I'm not worried about it so I don't research it to keep up. I was referring to the first instance where a security company had access to a Model S for a few days, plugged into the OBD-II port I think (?) and discovered a way in. The keys there being a) they had physical access to the car and b) Tesla immediately closed that hole with a patch delivered to all cars. It's described somewhere on the web, but I don't have the patience to search for it (sorry).
 
However, if that becomes widely possible exploiting some sort of hole, Tesla has a big advantage over everyone (as has already happened, twice I believe): At the first indication there's a problem, e.g., one car being hacked somewhere in the world, Tesla can figure out the problem and the patch and get the update out to ALL Tesla cars very quickly, over the air, while the owners sleep or whatever. Timing being a few days to a week.

Which is great for Tesla, but what about other manufacturers who fail to be as attentive to systems security? I guess it's good to know that Tesla also takes engineering of their cars for crash safety so seriously.
 
my only remote concern with Tesla vehicles - and I guess all vehicles connected to a network - is the potential for hackers to infiltrate the car and somehow take control of the vehicle. Like, could a car be taken over by a hacker remotely while it's doing 60-70 mph down the highway, cruising through the city, or started up from a parking spot and used to hit or run over someone?

I'm not a developer, but would love some tech insight into how easy/difficult it would be to do this, and how hacks like those done by Tencent were accomplished.


It seems like there are two approaches to this one might take.

The first approach would be to control the car directly. To accomplish that, you'd have to inject new control code into the modules that control the drive motors and steering motor (and possibly the brake motor.)

Those all live on the CANBus, which the car keeps isolated from the cellular side by a gateway, so you'd have to control the gateway first.

The gateway and all the modules will only install codesigned, check sum patches, so you'll need to either find a way to bypass that or develop a way to spoof Tesla's signature/checksum (or hack into the server that generates them.)

The other approach is to spoof the operating environment, so the car software believes it is operating normally and driving under AP/FSDC but goes somewhere it shouldn't/does something it shouldn't.

To do this, you'd need to override/disable and replace the outputs from the radar and/or AP computer into the CANBus. I'm not sure where the car handles GPS processing - not really a factor today, but presumably it'll be following maps as part of the process in the future, so you'd need to either fake the map processing results or replace the map or spoof the processor with fake GPS inputs.

Basically, it's not impossible but for any version of it you'd need to penetrate several sets of computers, both on the car and likely at Tesla headquarters, and there are a bunch of security measures in place in an effort to stop such things.

Also note the herd safety aspect. Even if a hacker beats all of this and creates an "accident", the records in the car will clearly show what happened, and unless Tesla is asleep at the wheel, they'll take immediate steps to protect the rest of the fleet.

We've already seen that they can roll new firmware to every car within two days (when the Wi-Fi exploit appeared I think it was, we *all* got new firmware within 48 hours.)
 
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No. All the driver info is still conveniently located just right of the steering wheel within easy glance for the driver. Plus, if you check out the touch screen sim, you can do most things with just 1-2 touches, much easier than turning knobs. I think the Model 3 will actually reduce distractions because there are no buttons to worry about and no instrument panel in front of you to distract you, the driver can focus on the road better.

Seriously? Reaching for a large knob without taking your eyes off the road to turn down the A/C is more distracting than taking your eyes off the road to look at the bottom of the center screen, find a menu button, click it, wait for the menu to come up, find the down arrow, click it, check to see if the set temperature has changed. Right, you're delusional.
 
Seriously? Reaching for a large knob without taking your eyes off the road to turn down the A/C is more distracting than taking your eyes off the road to look at the bottom of the center screen, find a menu button, click it, wait for the menu to come up, find the down arrow, click it, check to see if the set temperature has changed. Right, you're delusional.
Roll the steering wheel scroll for this. Also, no menus - you just tap if you want to use the screen. You need a better example. This one doesn't work.
 
Seriously? Reaching for a large knob without taking your eyes off the road to turn down the A/C is more distracting than taking your eyes off the road to look at the bottom of the center screen, find a menu button, click it, wait for the menu to come up, find the down arrow, click it, check to see if the set temperature has changed. Right, you're delusional.

Except that is not how it works at all. If you look at screenshots of the Model 3 screen, you can see the temp arrows are right there on the main screen. You don't need to find a menu, wait for it to pop up etc, you just hit the arrow that you want to raise or lower the temp. So, it only takes one tap to do it. Tapping one button is not harder than turning a knob!

See: https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/DPCUX2ETA#/screens/246644263
 
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Seriously? Reaching for a large knob without taking your eyes off the road to turn down the A/C is more distracting than taking your eyes off the road to look at the bottom of the center screen, find a menu button, click it, wait for the menu to come up, find the down arrow, click it, check to see if the set temperature has changed. Right, you're delusional.

The delusion people have is that they reach blindly for a knob without looking down to see where it is. Never happens. Reaching for a knob is no different than reaching to tap the screen; the glance is so instinctive and quick you hardly notice it in either case.
 
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The delusion people have is that they reach blindly for a knob without looking down to see where it is. Never happens. Reaching for a knob is no different than reaching to tap the screen; the glance is so instinctive and quick you hardly notice it in either case.

Exactly. Personally, I will get used to the Model 3 screen pretty quickly where it will become instinct. One hand on the steering wheel and a micro second glance to the screen while the other hand quickly taps one or two buttons to get what I want. Easy!!
 
Sorry for the post spam but let me just add that it is all in how you use the interface. Both the traditional knobs and the touch screen can be bad, if you let it take your focus off the road. There are times, I don't mess with the knobs in my car because I know I need to pay attention to the road. Same with touch screen. It can be good or bad, depending on how you use it. There will probably be times when we should wait till we are stopped at a light to do something on the touch screen because we need to focus on the road.
 
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Moooaaar. MOOOAAAR!

kitt.troll.jpg
 
Except that is not how it works at all. If you look at screenshots of the Model 3 screen, you can see the temp arrows are right there on the main screen. You don't need to find a menu, wait for it to pop up etc, you just hit the arrow that you want to raise or lower the temp. So, it only takes one tap to do it. Tapping one button is not harder than turning a knob!

See: https://projects.invisionapp.com/share/DPCUX2ETA#/screens/246644263

Actually it is, because you can't do it by feel, there is no tactile or haptic feedback on the Tesla screen.

I routinely find buttons on my BMW with feel and muscle memory without looking at anything.

I imagine eventually the brain will adapt to the new technology but you'll still always need to glance over, and in my opinion that is still inferior.

There's a reason that even though there have been glass cockpit systems in aircraft for 25 years there are still 100+ buttons and knobs.