It looks like I have LTE enabled

[rlang59]

Back in 2012/early 2013 tesla accidentally exposed a page where customers could select their data option. It was clear that if the customer declined to pay for data that certain features would not be available; web browser and streaming music were the major items. However, tesla would maintain a data connection to the car.

The fact that voice command uses data is an implementation choice made by tesla. Mobile data is not inherent to the value of the feature. As such, I would expect it to be on the list of features that continues to work if the customer declines data.

The only feature imho that could go either way is remote access via the phone app. It's extremely low bandwidth, and the marginal cost is negligible. However having data is inherent to the value of the feature. It's also likely the killer app. So if tesla wants to increase the take rate, the right choice is probably to require a data plan for this feature. If the priority is to provide a superior customer experience and highlight that the car is leading the way on tech, it should be included. In 2012 the model S was one of a small number of cars that offered remote connectivity. Today all the luxury brands do, which is also an argument that it should be included to remain competitive.

You are much more optimistic than I am, I don't expect anything that is customer facing to work without paying for data and that includes voice commands and the app. I would however like to be proven wrong, but I will set my expectations low so I can be surprised.

 

[Andyw2100]

Back in 2012/early 2013 tesla accidentally exposed a page where customers could select their data option. It was clear that if the customer declined to pay for data that certain features would not be available; web browser and streaming music were the major items. However, tesla would maintain a data connection to the car.

The fact that voice command uses data is an implementation choice made by tesla. Mobile data is not inherent to the value of the feature. As such, I would expect it to be on the list of features that continues to work if the customer declines data.

The only feature imho that could go either way is remote access via the phone app. It's extremely low bandwidth, and the marginal cost is negligible. However having data is inherent to the value of the feature. It's also likely the killer app. So if tesla wants to increase the take rate, the right choice is probably to require a data plan for this feature. If the priority is to provide a superior customer experience and highlight that the car is leading the way on tech, it should be included. In 2012 the model S was one of a small number of cars that offered remote connectivity. Today all the luxury brands do, which is also an argument that it should be included to remain competitive.

That's actually very interesting.

If I'm understanding this correctly, if Tesla were to include remote connectivity, someone could conceivably not pay for the Tesla provided internet service, just use their own LTE hotspot when in the car, and lose nothing that they now have, right?

On the other hand, if Tesla did not include remote connectivity, someone attempting to go this route would have no way to use any remote app, since the car would have no connectivity unless the hotspot were left in the car all the time. The exception to this would be if the car was connected to some other wifi source, of course.

Very interesting!

 

[NOLA_Mike]

If I'm understanding this correctly, if Tesla were to include remote connectivity, someone could conceivably not pay for the Tesla provided internet service, just use their own LTE hotspot when in the car, and lose nothing that they now have, right?

On the other hand, if Tesla did not include remote connectivity, someone attempting to go this route would have no way to use any remote app, since the car would have no connectivity unless the hotspot were left in the car all the time. The exception to this would be if the car was connected to some other wifi source, of course.

I personally believe that when the data plan (that we currently have) is no longer free (provided by Tesla) that should someone opt out of paying for a data plan Tesla will maintain connectivity solely for the purpose of sending firmware updates and remote monitoring/troubleshooting. Everything else that requires the cars cellular connection will be disabled.

Having said that, as you stated above, WiFi will allow a personal hotspot in the car wherein you could still have everything operate as it does now.

That's my prediction...

 

[ERP]

Is connectivity needed for supercharging?

I've seen it mentioned here that Tesla can control which cars are allowed to supercharge. The example was for users who abuse the local supercharger, with their punishment being reduced charging rates or being unable to charge at the local supercharger. If this is correct, how would cars supercharge if they were severed from Tesla? Could they unlimitedly charge everywhere, or nowhere? If Tesla always maintains a minimal connection to the car, I would suspect this would be included. But it makes me wonder; if a hardware failure severs all connectivity can I still supercharge?

 

[HankLloydRight]

That connectivity is all done through the supercharger itself. Each SC location has at least one cell modem for telecom.

 

[scaesare]

Is connectivity needed for supercharging?

I've seen it mentioned here that Tesla can control which cars are allowed to supercharge. The example was for users who abuse the local supercharger, with their punishment being reduced charging rates or being unable to charge at the local supercharger. If this is correct, how would cars supercharge if they were severed from Tesla? Could they unlimitedly charge everywhere, or nowhere? If Tesla always maintains a minimal connection to the car, I would suspect this would be included. But it makes me wonder; if a hardware failure severs all connectivity can I still supercharge?

The car info, including VIN, is communicated to the superchager over the data-link in the cable... and the Supercharger has a network link back to the mothership, so I think all the supercharging control/authorization mechanisms are independent of the car's data connectivity...

 

[ERP]

Makes sense, but can the car be black listed? If Tesla never sees the car connecting to its servers but it occasionally pops up on the supercharger network, would they allow that?

 

[HankLloydRight]

Makes sense, but can the car be black listed? If Tesla never sees the car connecting to its servers but it occasionally pops up on the supercharger network, would they allow that?

Blacklisted how? Or why?

For supercharging? That check is done through the SC system and not through the car itself.

 

[gregincal]

I personally believe that when the data plan (that we currently have) is no longer free (provided by Tesla) that should someone opt out of paying for a data plan Tesla will maintain connectivity solely for the purpose of sending firmware updates and remote monitoring/troubleshooting. Everything else that requires the cars cellular connection will be disabled.

Having said that, as you stated above, WiFi will allow a personal hotspot in the car wherein you could still have everything operate as it does now.

No, you wouldn't be able to use the remote app, because you would be somewhere else with your phone at the time.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

No, you wouldn't be able to use the remote app, because you would be somewhere else with your phone at the time.

I think you're assuming that everyone uses their phone as a hotspot (not everyone does - there are dedicated hotspot devices)

Also, when my car is parked in my garage it is connected to my home WiFi.

 

[scaesare]

Makes sense, but can the car be black listed? If Tesla never sees the car connecting to its servers but it occasionally pops up on the supercharger network, would they allow that?

Indeed it could be (there's been some discussion of Tesla not allowing salvage title cars to supercharge until they pass inspection), but I doubt they'd do it for the reason you mention...

 

[4SUPER9]

Hi everyone. New to this thread.
Question: I have a classic P85 and purchased the Tech Package, which includes navigation. My understanding is that a 3g connection is needed for the nav to function properly. If data was turned off for me, would that make my nav non-functional? If so, would Tesla not have to maintain the connection to keep the option I purchased operational?

Heck, this is still a few years away for me regardless. By then, I may downgrade to a 70D and get all the new features and save $400 a month in payments.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Hi everyone. New to this thread.
Question: I have a classic P85 and purchased the Tech Package, which includes navigation. My understanding is that a 3g connection is needed for the nav to function properly. If data was turned off for me, would that make my nav non-functional? If so, would Tesla not have to maintain the connection to keep the option I purchased operational?

Heck, this is still a few years away for me regardless. By then, I may downgrade to a 70D and get all the new features and save $400 a month in payments.

The nav in the dashboard will work regardless of any 3G connection. What likely won't work is the live updating maps on the touchscreen. I'd guess you would still be able to enter any address, but the google results that help lookup points of interest or nearby addresses would not work.

 

[jvonbokel]

The nav in the dashboard will work regardless of any 3G connection. What likely won't work is the live updating maps on the touchscreen. I'd guess you would still be able to enter any address, but the google results that help lookup points of interest or nearby addresses would not work.

Hank is spot on, but 4SUPER9 also brings up a good point here. The Nav functionality would be pretty significantly degraded without voice recognition and/or Google Maps search capability. It's entirely possible Tesla could move both of those local to the car, and they may even do that just for the sake of 3G/LTE dead zones, but I think overall it'd be better for them to just maintain the connection. I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd bet that Google Maps access will stay beyond the 4yr free connectivity period.

 

[gjunky]

It would be cool if they worked with Google and supported project Google Fi which uses both the Sprint and the T-Mobile networks as well as any available WiFi. All traffic is encrypted. It currently only supports the Nexus 6 because if has both radios but I assume a Cell Module would be possible. Then if they provided WiFi at all the superchargers, we would have great coverage and speed in most places. I know this wouldn't work outside the US (yet). I am considering switching from TMo to Project Fi because I like the idea of having both Networks and automatically switch between the two (and WiFi) based on the best connection. TMo is really pretty good in the Phoenix area but very spotty outside. Sprint has the same problem but not in the same places.

 

[Andyw2100]

If I'm understanding this correctly, if Tesla were to include remote connectivity, someone could conceivably not pay for the Tesla provided internet service, just use their own LTE hotspot when in the car, and lose nothing that they now have, right?

On the other hand, if Tesla did not include remote connectivity, someone attempting to go this route would have no way to use any remote app, since the car would have no connectivity unless the hotspot were left in the car all the time. The exception to this would be if the car was connected to some other wifi source, of course.

I personally believe that when the data plan (that we currently have) is no longer free (provided by Tesla) that should someone opt out of paying for a data plan Tesla will maintain connectivity solely for the purpose of sending firmware updates and remote monitoring/troubleshooting. Everything else that requires the cars cellular connection will be disabled.

Having said that, as you stated above, WiFi will allow a personal hotspot in the car wherein you could still have everything operate as it does now.

No, you wouldn't be able to use the remote app, because you would be somewhere else with your phone at the time.

gregincal--NOLA_Mike's response, taken in context, was correct. He was responding to my post, (which he included,) and the situation I described had Tesla including remote-connectivity.

 

[hiroshiy]

Just 2 cents on 3G depreciation... With 4G phones you use LTE for data, but you have two choices for voice. 3G or VoLTE. Some phones are VoLTE compatible but some don't have VoLTE on their firmware. It is thus unlikely in my opinion for U.S. cellular operators to shut down 3G in a few year terms in the future.

 

[arg]

Just 2 cents on 3G depreciation... With 4G phones you use LTE for data, but you have two choices for voice. 3G or VoLTE. Some phones are VoLTE compatible but some don't have VoLTE on their firmware. It is thus unlikely in my opinion for U.S. cellular operators to shut down 3G in a few year terms in the future.

What about 2G?

The issue in the UK, at least with the operator Tesla has chosen, is that there's good 2G almost everywhere (great for voice, useless for data as it's plain old GPRS, not even EDGE), but patchy 3G. So, assuming they invest anything at all in rural coverage, are they going to expand the 3G, or give up on 3G and build all new coverage as 4G?

I don't know enough about the relative 2G/3G footprints of the US operators, but similar concerns might apply in some areas there.

 

[hiroshiy]

What about 2G?

The issue in the UK, at least with the operator Tesla has chosen, is that there's good 2G almost everywhere (great for voice, useless for data as it's plain old GPRS, not even EDGE), but patchy 3G. So, assuming they invest anything at all in rural coverage, are they going to expand the 3G, or give up on 3G and build all new coverage as 4G?

I don't know enough about the relative 2G/3G footprints of the US operators, but similar concerns might apply in some areas there.

If the UK operator has good 2G coverage but spotty 3G coverage, then building out 4G with VoLTE is the way to go. Future proof and cheaper too.

FYI all Japanese operators stopped 2G already. Does Tesla in the UK receive 2G/EDGE signal??

 

[thegruf]

What about 2G?

The issue in the UK, at least with the operator Tesla has chosen, is that there's good 2G almost everywhere (great for voice, useless for data as it's plain old GPRS, not even EDGE), but patchy 3G. So, assuming they invest anything at all in rural coverage, are they going to expand the 3G, or give up on 3G and build all new coverage as 4G?

I don't know enough about the relative 2G/3G footprints of the US operators, but similar concerns might apply in some areas there.

2G is hopeless for downloads the size of map tiles.
You are correct 3G is very patchy in the UK, (actually mobile in general outside cities) best we can hope for is rapid push to 4G and regulators are supposedly keep an eye on coverage too now.