I've enagaged lawyers in an attempt to recover FSD cost (Australian owner)

[jaykaye]

In the event that you are successful in a refund, is there any kind of "warrant canary" you can post here with a promise to repost in x-days' time in the event you accept a settlement with an NDA?

For example:

1. My case has not settled.
2. I have not received a refund.
3. I will repost this verbatim in 1 months' time, omitting any statement that I am bound by law to not make.

If we don't hear back from you, we will assume you have settled and received a refund which includes an NDA.

Don't worry, I'll be keeping this thread updated with progress. So far, they haven't gotten back to me.

 

[jaykaye]

Quick update. I haven't heard back from Tesla yet. Still waiting.

The bad news is tesla have a team of in-house lawyers in australia (you can question why they need that) They will respond and drag it out until you realise the amount you are paying your lawyer is not worth it.

Good news for me is that the lawyers who are handling my case feel strongly that we can win if it goes all the way through. Plus, they're family and are handling my case pro bono.

 

[caskings]

Good news for me is that the lawyers who are handling my case feel strongly that we can win if it goes all the way through. Plus, they're family and are handling my case pro bono.

I hope for you sake they settle quickly without the need to go to court. For everyone else's sake I hope it goes to court and a precedent is set in your favour.

 

[Quickst]

I hope for you sake they settle quickly

Settling just prevents a court from making a ruling that then applies to everyone similarly affected.

The upside is it limits time and cost of litigation

 

[caskings]

That was my point?

 

[jaykaye]

Quick update.

I had written a detailed update but decided not to post it as things are still unfolding, and not much point giving too much info if things can change in an instant.

But in short...

• Tesla refused to provide a refund for their own manufactured reasons without addressing our main concerns.
• We are moving towards taking them to court. Which may be good for everyone else here (as it can set a precedent if it comes out in our favour).
• After a long conversation between my lawyer and the ACCC, the ACCC are very, VERY interested in this. We haven't opened an official complaint with them yet and are waiting to hear back from Tesla first.

 

[believer__]

Quick update.

I had written a detailed update but decided not to post it as things are still unfolding, and not much point giving too much info if things can change in an instant.

But in short...

• Tesla refused to provide a refund for their own manufactured reasons without addressing our main concerns.
• We are moving towards taking them to court. Which may be good for everyone else here (as it can set a precedent if it comes out in our favour).
• After a long conversation between my lawyer and the ACCC, the ACCC are very, VERY interested in this. We haven't opened an official complaint with them yet and are waiting to hear back from Tesla first.

Interesting. Look forward to updates as it progresses.

 

[evbee]

• After a long conversation between my lawyer and the ACCC, the ACCC are very, VERY interested in this. We haven't opened an official complaint with them yet and are waiting to hear back from Tesla first.

And what has the ACCC done about this themselves? "Ineffective" is the word that comes to mind.

 

[Vostok]

And what has the ACCC done about this themselves? "Ineffective" is the word that comes to mind.

While the ACCC can instigate actions itself or at the direction of the Minister, it mostly responds to complaints lodged by the public or a company alleging anti-competitive or illegal behaviour by another company.

In the broad spectrum of corporate malfeasance and anti-competitive behaviour in Australia, the non-delivery of FSD after 4 years would have been invisible to them until someone lodged a complaint, which has now happened.

 

[Quickst]

And what has the ACCC done about this themselves?

The ACCC does not act on individual complaints but they may take note of the complaint and put it in the Tesla FSD file

 

[Seeds369]

I would be open to a transfer if there were some indication of when FSD would be coming out. I would expect to keep the new Tesla for 4 years and would love to have FSD for at least half that time.

The transfer is only available until end of this quarter, but I plan to buy the new Highland 3 Performance that has no release date yet. So even if I were willing, Tesla doesn't offer the transfer for then.

Hi good for you, I’m in the same situation and looking at starting a claim. Can you please tell me what lawyers firm you are using

 

[jaykaye]

Update on Dispute with Tesla Regarding Full Self-Driving (FSD) Charges

Attached is the complete exchange between my lawyers and Tesla.

Summary:

1. Tesla has declined responsibility for not delivering the FSD feature, resulting in no refund being offered (see attached).
2. Consequently, I have directed my legal team to file a complaint with the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC) on my behalf (see attached).
3. It appears that further discussions with Tesla will not yield any progress. Although escalating this to the ACCC aligns with my ethical standards, it doesn't give me an immediate refund.
4. I've prepared a draft for my lawyers to initiate a Statement of Claim to be filed in the Local Court, though I haven't sent it to them yet.

I'm a long-time supporter of Tesla and Elon Musk, beginning for me in 2011 with my fascination with SpaceX's grasshopper launches. That's how I discovered Telsa. Years later I was one of the early-adopters of the Model 3. Since then I've owned 1 other Tesla and have put down a deposit last week for another.
Unfortunately, my enthusiasm has been significantly dampened by all this. The lack of accountability is disheartening and goes against the principles of fairness and integrity I thought Elon valued.

Given the circumstances has anyone here pursued a similar case? What was your experience, and do you think it could be successful?

 

[Jules22]

Fully support you, it sounds like it is worth pursuing, particularly if you can do it under the small claims act where your costs would be minimal so there is little to lose.

At the least I think (as I've probably mentioned before) allowing you to transfer the FSD component to the new vehicle at a time of your choosing is fair and reasonable and if they weren't willing to do that a refund may be appropriate.

 

[Tam]

Given the circumstances has anyone here pursued a similar case? What was your experience, and do you think it could be successful?

In the US, the court sides with Tesla: Owners to work with arbitration and not fighting in court.

https://cybernews.com/news/tesla-victory-in-autopilot-feature-class-action-suit/

 

[jaykaye]

At the least I think (as I've probably mentioned before) allowing you to transfer the FSD component to the new vehicle at a time of your choosing is fair and reasonable and if they weren't willing to do that a refund may be appropriate.

I spoke to Tesla sales about this and they said there is no offer for FSD transfer anymore. That was offered only for deliveries received prior to end of March.

 

[Jules22]

I spoke to Tesla sales about this and they said there is no offer for FSD transfer anymore.

Yeah, I was giving my opinion on potential remedies if you were to take it to a small claims tribunal or equivalent.

 

[RobDickinson]

Hi jaykaye,

I am in the process of asking tesla for a refund in NZ. They have told me via phone call, twice, that they wont refund but have willfully misunderstood and misrepresented what I have purchased both times.

I'm awaiting another call which assume will be the same response and once I get something in writing I plan on proceeding this to the Disputes tribunal. No lawyer involved, its $180 for me to progress that.

I bought fsd in june 2020, not sure what the website said then I think it was later this year.

 

[Audietron]

I spoke to Tesla sales about this and they said there is no offer for FSD transfer anymore. That was offered only for deliveries received prior to end of March.

I purchased Model Y last September and was suppose to receive FSD transfer from M3 I just sold... long story short - after delivering vehicle with FSD trial (wrong thing to do), and further long process and back and forth, they gave up and simply added free credits and set up FSD as product option for me to accept and use free credit worth FSD cost to pay for it.....

so technically, they can provide FSD transfer at any time inside or outside offer time... it's just matter of how ethical they are feeling on that day and how persistent is the customer to get it sorted....

 

[edb49]

Given the circumstances has anyone here pursued a similar case? What was your experience, and do you think it could be successful?

I can only offer experience from the UK. I litigated and Tesla fought, but then eventually settled - see my posts on this forum for details.

Many other UK owners then did the same as me, and Tesla focused on buying silence with NDAs etc. With other owners they started off fighting but eventually settled

Good luck, I hope you get a positive outcome!

 

[Power Hungry]

I've had my Tesla Model 3 for 4 years and am ready to sell it [to get another Tesla], but I know I won't be getting much for FSD and am really bummed that I had purchased FSD, waited for 4 years, and never got it before selling the car.

So after reading Edward Butler's post where he managed to get a refund for his unfulfilled FSD, I was inspired to take action. While I'm not entirely convinced that Tesla will readily provide a refund, I know I had to try. As much as I love Tesla and the mission, I think it's unethical they can sell a feature that hasn't materialised in a reasonable time.

Initially, I didn't plan to post about it on the internet due to potential backlash. However, seeing Edward did so with positive intentions and he was the one who inspired me to try, I felt compelled to "pay it forward".

I've attached a redacted copy of the letter my lawyers sent to Tesla along with the WayBackMachine screenshot it mentions. I haven't attached the initial email I sent to Tesla requesting the refund and their reply.
I'll keep you all updated of progress.

I have no idea why (and how) Tesla keep selling FSD as an (expensive) option. It is disingenuous and really should be unlawful in Australia whilst it remains illegal to use. Even Enhanced Autopilot isn't functional at present. Luckily I didn't fall into that trap but a good friend did and is extremely unhappy.