You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
As mentioned this is a thread on the UK subforum about bringing claims against Tesla in the UK, so UK law is germane.I assume that you are referring to me since at the moment I am the only dissenting comment.
Most of the US law is based on UK law. In the US you can absolutely have a claim against a manufacturer without being the first hand owner. In fact you can without being any owner: for example if you borrow a product or are injured by someone else. You can even have a claim against the supplier of a manufacturer.
I guess the other point is FSD doesn’t really have any value in the second hand market. Wasn’t it even Tesla that basically give you nothing extra for a car with FSD than a car without. You basically get it for free if you find a car that has it second hand.As mentioned this is a thread on the UK subforum about bringing claims against Tesla in the UK, so UK law is germane.
I'm by no means an expert but I think these cases turn on people being induced to buy FSD - the option - under false pretenses. Someone buying a car with FSD already on it from an indie dealer would probably have a harder time bringing a case against Tesla because they have no contractual relationship with them in these circumstances. It would be difficult to quantify the loss in such cases as well, if the car is purchased used.
A customer might have a claim against the dealer they bought it from, but I would imagine that the option would not be sold with the same degree of "sales puffery" as Tesla does, with promises and deadlines, and that they would defend themselves as it not being reasonable to expect them to know the minutiae of every option on every car they sell.
People are claiming based on mis-sold goods that haven’t been delivered, if you don’t buy from Tesla you don’t have a such a claim. If what you say is true, there would be a lucrative market in buying cars with FSD on the used market for only a few hundreds more than a car without FSD (which is the going rate), claiming £6,800 back from Tesla, and then selling the car on without it and probably making £5k a time.I assume that you are referring to me since at the moment I am the only dissenting comment.
Most of the US law is based on UK law. In the US you can absolutely have a claim against a manufacturer without being the first hand owner. In fact you can without being any owner: for example if you borrow a product or are injured by someone else. You can even have a claim against the supplier of a manufacturer.
Yup, if you try and order one on Tesla finance having FSD does not make any difference to the quoted guaranteed future value.I guess the other point is FSD doesn’t really have any value in the second hand market. Wasn’t it even Tesla that basically give you nothing extra for a car with FSD than a car without. You basically get it for free if you find a car that has it second hand.
A feature that does nothing has no value you can attach to it.
Yes, we're aware. Sue anyone over anything.I assume that you are referring to me since at the moment I am the only dissenting comment.
Most of the US law is based on UK law. In the US you can absolutely have a claim against a manufacturer without being the first hand owner. In fact you can without being any owner: for example if you borrow a product or are injured by someone else. You can even have a claim against the supplier of a manufacturer.
I think you are overselling the country a little bit. We use it in liberal doses to make sure we don't run outbut over here, we've introduced Common sense...
Nothing to lose but I honestly can't see this gaining enough traction unfortunately.I know that Tesla are restricted on FSD in the UK because of regulations but I am sick of Tesla making promises and not delivering. Talking to a friend, he suggested a Government Petition to (hopefully) light the fuse. You don't get anywhere unless you try.............So..............
I’ve made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition:
Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
My petition:
Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date.
Tesla have been selling their cars in the UK for some years now and from the beginning Full Self Driving (FSD) was advertised as "coming soon". Almost five years on Tesla drivers still don't have it due to UNECE regulations however Tesla knew of this restriction from day one. Parliament should ensure that Tesla reimburse all those who have bought FSD to date as taking Tesla to court is a long laborious process and waste of our courts time. Parliament is there to protect the public including this unrealistic claim made by Tesla.
Click this link to sign the petition:
Petition: Make Tesla Reimburse UK Tesla drivers for Full Self Driving
Well, as you say Bill, nothing to lose.................Nothing to lose but I honestly can't see this gaining enough traction unfortunately.
The issue isn't that it isn't a capable system. If we had FSD Beta or even anything approaching it here in Europe I would be perfectly happy with what I paid 4 years ago
Our roads are quite different to what you have in the US
I had a test drive in February 2020 which was organised by Cambridge sales centre, who brought several M3’s to a Hotel in Norfolk.This statement is a point I have been giving a lot of consideration to. In some circumstances, some FSD owners somewhere feel their cars do something that represents some value. The well documented issues of humidity build up, b-pillar and other camera condensation and radar / USS / sensor fusion issues all make me question if the HW3 platform is really FSD capable in certain climates. It certainly does not allow for reliable sensor operation any where near 'most of the time' in my experience in the UK. I to would most likely be prepared to chalk FSD non delivery up to experience if there was any evidence that Tesla had or is currently making even a modest effort to get something ready to meet our roads and regulations.
Even if I hadn't shelled out for the actual FSD software license, I was still sold a platform specifically claimed to be capable of running it - presumably in the locale where the vehicle is sold / purchased.
Yes. This ^^^
The self contradictory / disfunctional FSD traffic light recognition feature that is only for use on (freeways / interstates / motorways - who knows where?) where there are no traffic lights. (unless you count truck rear lights being interpreted as traffic lights!) is surely enough to convey the true state of UK FSD.
Only time will tell. But having wasted too much time following the progression in the US on YouTube, I certainly wish we had what they have there. And the rate of improvement since the release of V12 to me is quite encouraging.The faith that has been put into cameras to solve all situations is completely misplaced under current hardware.
Agree with that.This statement is a point I have been giving a lot of consideration to. In some circumstances, some FSD owners somewhere feel their cars do something that represents some value. The well documented issues of humidity build up, b-pillar and other camera condensation and radar / USS / sensor fusion issues all make me question if the HW3 platform is really FSD capable in certain climates. It certainly does not allow for reliable sensor operation any where near 'most of the time' in my experience in the UK. I to would most likely be prepared to chalk FSD non delivery up to experience if there was any evidence that Tesla had or is currently making even a modest effort to get something ready to meet our roads and regulations.
Even if I hadn't shelled out for the actual FSD software license, I was still sold a platform specifically claimed to be capable of running it - presumably in the locale where the vehicle is sold / purchased.
Yes. This ^^^
The self contradictory / disfunctional FSD traffic light recognition feature that is only for use on (freeways / interstates / motorways - who knows where?) where there are no traffic lights. (unless you count truck rear lights being interpreted as traffic lights!) is surely enough to convey the true state of UK FSD.
Ask me a few years ago before the first FSD Beta dropped and I'd have agreed with you but in the US it's very impressive. Not perfect but it could drive you to work with you ready to take over already for a lot of people and roads.Not looking to wind anybody up but this thread shows the cult of personality, that being Elon Musk. I can’t believe people were so naive to pay all that money for FSD expecting it within the lifetime of their car. By FSD I mean asking your car to drive you to work for example with no inputs, but still ready to take over.
I would guesstimate that kind of autonomous driving is a decade away in the US with mass adoption working reliably and no accidents. Probably 2-3 decades away in the UK with our notoriously complex road systems. Tesla can’t even get the basics right like cruise control (phantom braking) and auto lane change (scarily abandons mid change). Tesla’s auto park is a disgrace, still. All of these miles behind legacy car manufacturers, especially the German brands that’s do everything perfectly.
It probably does need government intervention to act on behalf of mislead consumers.