Lane departure avoidance issues

[ucmndd]

I drive 30 miles every day on severely broken pavement on rural backroads where the lane markers are more of a suggestion and crossing over them multiple times per mile is mandatory to avoid hitting potholes or other hazards. Never been more happy to have a "yesterday's news" Model S that doesn't have this feature yet. I've never refused an update before but this will be the first until there is a persistent way to disable ELDA.

 

[Runnergirl]

I lost big tonight, but had enough laughs to last a week. Oh well.

Laughing is good for the !!

 

[Incredulocious]

How is it that folks keep posting completely uninformed comments about how you just need to use a turn signal or apply pressure to avoid having Emergency Lane Departure Assist try to steer you in an unexpected direction at an inopportune moment? Can they not read and understand the many multiple reports that outright contradict what they're saying? (sigh) This is the human race.

Probably the deepest thread on this topic is here:
Emergency Lane Departure - False Positives

Lots of examples of how signaling and holding on to the wheel is NOT going to protect you from an unexpected and potentially dangerous intervention from Emergency Lane Departure Assist right now.

I saw a post by someone in another thread where Tesla acknowledged that they're aware of the complaints and looking to address it soon. Still waiting on my update until I see reports that the behavior is no longer happening or at least can be disabled beyond the current drive session.

 

[Kant.Ing]

No wonder today on carpool lane I saw an M3 signaled left to let a lane splitting motorcycle through. Glad to know reinforcement training works on human too!

 

[Fernand]

I've only had the update a couple of days, but FWIW everything
so far has been above par. As to the Lane Departure stuff, I
suspect that automatically forcing it back on is a bug, and they'll
fix that soon.

As to the whole LDA, I think it has to do with a specific scenario.

When the driver loses AS, which can happen many different
ways, it's far too easy to not realize it right away. This has
happened to me, several times. The danger is real then of
driving out of the lane or off the road before you have time
to sort it out. People have complained that there's not enough
protection against that. Of course people should be able to
take their chances and disable it entirely, but no matter what
Tesla does, there's always complaining.

 

[jsmay311]

As to the Lane Departure stuff, I suspect that automatically forcing it back on is a bug, and they'll fix that soon.

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature. This is explicitly how Tesla described how it’s intended to work in the release notes.

“This setting is always enabled when you start your vehicle but can be turned off for a single drive[...]”

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/img_5921-jpg.413059/

 

[jkeyser14]

This "safety" feature has caused a lot of people problems. Tesla's system has a lot of parallels to the Boeing 737 autopilot anti-stall system that caused several planes to crash. Tesla needs to let people permanently disable this if they want to. They should also not be rolling out major features like this that change the basic functionality of the car without first doing extensive testing.

 

[Msjulie]

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature. This is explicitly how Tesla described how it’s intended to work in the release notes.

“This setting is always enabled when you start your vehicle but can be turned off for a single drive[...]”

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/img_5921-jpg.413059/

View attachment 413916

Agreed that's exactly what it but I believe they are are wrong in deciding it should reenable at every drive. Someone else used the perfect term, legacy. I'm all for them adding new features, in general that is fantastic.

But I am strongly apposed to them changing the behavior of the car against the owner/driver's wishes regardless of well-meaning intentions, especially one where the car takes outright control! It feels maybe a tad arrogant..

 

[duanra]

Arrogant IS the word.
Totally agree.

 

[Snow Drift]

I haven't had ELDA activate yet, but LDA is working properly. I tried to drift over (controlled) and the car gently steered me back into my lane. No chimes, just moved me back over.

I did notice that the steering vibration is gone. I guess it's Warn or Assist. I thought maybe Assist would include Warn.

 

[Msjulie]

I haven't had ELDA activate yet, but LDA is working properly. I tried to drift over (controlled) and the car gently steered me back into my lane. No chimes, just moved me back over.

I did notice that the steering vibration is gone. I guess it's Warn or Assist. I thought maybe Assist would include Warn.

This is confusing to me; the previous lane departure warning system only vibrates the wheel when it believes you have inadvertently crossed out of your lane and it can be disabled and stay that way; it never took control of the car.

The new feature is the one that does not remain disabled and will take control when it believes it needs to so... what settings are actually on in your car?

thanks

 

[Runnergirl]

Agreed that's exactly what it but I believe they are are wrong in deciding it should reenable at every drive. Someone else used the perfect term, legacy. I'm all for them adding new features, in general that is fantastic.

But I am strongly apposed to them changing the behavior of the car against the owner/driver's wishes regardless of well-meaning intentions, especially one where the car takes outright control! It feels maybe a tad arrogant..

Agree.
It feels a LOT like helicopter parenting. A good parent GIVES YOU THE TOOLS and then cuts the apron strings and lets YOU create your own path. Tesla is NOT my mother and I don't need TESLA to make decisions for me. Just present me with the tools, and I'll take it from there. Only Jesus can take my wheel.

 

[Snow Drift]

This is confusing to me; the previous lane departure warning system only vibrates the wheel when it believes you have inadvertently crossed out of your lane and it can be disabled and stay that way; it never took control of the car.

The new feature is the one that does not remain disabled and will take control when it believes it needs to so... what settings are actually on in your car?

thanks

So, there are a few things...

The old system:
Lane Departure Warning (aka Lane Assist) would vibrate the steering wheel, and could be deactivated.

The new system:
1) Lane Departure Avoidance (can be forever deactivated, select Off)
Off - It's off
Warn - Only vibrates the wheel like the old system
Assist - Without a blinker, it takes control and steers you back into your lane (25-90 MPH). It does not vibrate (I haven't felt it yet).

2) Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance (can only be deactivated for one drive, then automatically turned back on) - this is a collision avoidance system and a chime will sound and the car will steer you back into your lane to avoid an accident.



Here are my settings:

 

[Runnergirl]

So, there are a few things...

The old system:
Lane Departure Warning (aka Lane Assist) would vibrate the steering wheel, and could be deactivated.

The new system:
1) Lane Departure Avoidance (can be forever deactivated, select Off)
Off - It's off
Warn - Only vibrates the wheel like the old system
Assist - Without a blinker, it takes control and steers you back into your lane (25-90 MPH). It does not vibrate (I haven't felt it yet).

2) Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance (can only be deactivated for one drive, then automatically turned back on) - this is a collision avoidance system and a chime will sound and the car will steer you back into your lane to avoid an accident.



Here are my settings:

View attachment 413986

#2- it grabs the wheel like a BAD driving instructor and you fight like hell to maneuver it against its wishes. And there was NO collision to be had in my incidence- it was just the edge of the road. I guess my cat-like reflexes are getting slow but tell me WHO has time to signal when they are going to suddenly hit an obstacle in the road?!!
It might be a beautiful feature to some but it should be OFF by default and those ninjas with mystical powers who can stop time, turn their indicator on, and then sweetly swerve out of the way, can turn it on EVERY drive. I shouldn't have to turn it OFF every drive.

 

[Msjulie]

#2- it grabs the wheel like a BAD driving instructor and you fight like hell to maneuver it against its wishes. And there was NO collision to be had in my incidence- it was just the edge of the road. I guess my cat-like reflexes are getting slow but tell me WHO has time to signal when they are going to suddenly hit an obstacle in the road?!!
It might be a beautiful feature to some but it should be OFF by default and those ninjas with mystical powers who can stop time, turn their indicator on, and then sweetly swerve out of the way, can turn it on EVERY drive. I shouldn't have to turn it OFF every drive.

Please tell me you have expressed your feelings to Tesla - they need to hear from us..

I agree - just having to dissuade AP from steering where it should not (and that's when I am in hyper-vigilant driving mode) tells me that having to correct for error here will not always go well.

 

[Runnergirl]

Please tell me you have expressed your feelings to Tesla - they need to hear from us..

I agree - just having to dissuade AP from steering where it should not (and that's when I am in hyper-vigilant driving mode) tells me that having to correct for error here will not always go well.

Yes ma'am! I used your link and told them to stop being my mother.. she's a handful as it is! Thanks for your persistence in this matter.

 

[turnem]

I'll start by saying that I do agree that this should be an option that we can choose to permanently disable. They could even give us a disclaimer much like they do with several other options that we currently have.

Having said that - I have yet to experience any issues at all. I'm certainly not saying that I don't believe the onslaught of complaints/concerns above. I do believe that it is causing issues for many people. I just haven't personally experienced any issues so far.

On a side note - in my testing of lane departure avoidance (with assist enabled) I found it to be effective about 80% of the time. Several times it didn't catch me drifting over the line. It could be that my testing was flawed and it picked up on the fact that I was intentionally letting the car drift - not sure.

 

[GolanB]

I'll start by saying that I do agree that this should be an option that we can choose to permanently disable. They could even give us a disclaimer much like they do with several other options that we currently have.

Having said that - I have yet to experience any issues at all. I'm certainly not saying that I don't believe the onslaught of complaints/concerns above. I do believe that it is causing issues for many people. I just haven't personally experienced any issues so far.

On a side note - in my testing of lane departure avoidance (with assist enabled) I found it to be effective about 80% of the time. Several times it didn't catch me drifting over the line. It could be that my testing was flawed and it picked up on the fact that I was intentionally letting the car drift - not sure.

Peoples experience will vary greatly depending on location and road conditions. I have not had enough time to assess LDA carefully, and so far it has only come to my aid in my tests, and never as a result of me unintentionally misguiding the vehicle. I've had less than 300 miles on the road so far with it enabled, and this has only been between two states (NY and NJ). For me, it hasn't seemed to get in the way, but given the feedback I have read, it may be a bit over-reaching and not applicable when conducting emergency maneuvers.

I tend to tighten my grip and apply more force when encountering an emergency, but I'm not sure that this approach will work to my benefit as automation gets better and better.

As of now, I'm training myself to be speculative of these features, and in the long run, this may come to bite. It is easy to foresee conditions where I attempt to correct what I believe to be a mistake by a safety feature of the car, and then potentially get into a worse situation. I'm not sure how I would react to the Tesla suddenly pulling me out of lane if an adjacent vehicle gets too close. Some users have reported that this has saved them from an accident, and I'm concerned that I may override the safety system unless I was aware of the approaching vehicle.

 

[SDKoala]

I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread but I also just got the update that has this mandatory "feature" and I really hate it. On my regular commute on a narrow two lane country road, ELDA activated twice for no apparent reason. As those who have experienced it, that warning is loud, annoying, and startling, as I suppose is the point to get your attention. It freaked me out so much coming out of nowhere that I almost wrecked because of it by jerking the wheel in reaction.

The worse part is the feeling of being on edge every time while driving, not knowing when the next time the car is going to shriek at me. I sent feedback to Tesla and I hope that everyone who is experiencing these annoying false positives is doing the same. They need to implement a way to permanently turn it off and not automatically start with every drive.

 

[SDKoala]

What I find surprising with all these threads regarding ELDA is how many folks take the position that if it doesn't happen to them directly they discount the experience others are describing. This seams a bit shortsighted to me considering how the NN is trained in this system.

It's like the phone key problem all over again.