Hey, longer can help the drag coefficient.Lol. Farzad…
Tesla is getting 350 miles EPA out of a 100kw battery pack in a vehicle which is longer, wider and sits higher than a Model X…
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Launch is Imminent
- Thread starter T3SLAROD
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Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Plus heavier with less efficient tires.Lol. Farzad…
Tesla is getting 350 miles EPA out of a 100kw battery pack in a vehicle which is longer, wider and sits higher than a Model X…
oh yeah. That's for sure. The Cybertruck crowd will be in for a surprise range and price wise when final specs are revealed. There's no secret sauce... pushing a vehicle that size down the highway takes a lot of juice and you need a large battery.
That would be my thought process for this model to succeed. They are already saving on manufacturing by deleting the paint, and it is missing a lot of features most regular buyers (including myself) would consider standard in the marketplace. The only options left would be the fans that will buy regardless, and cost. If they can get the cost down then they may have a niche to exploit. I don't see how it can compete with the Lightning, Silverado, or Rivian on build, features, or range.
not only that... while they do save on paint (how much is it really in savings?) ... thick stainless steel panels are more $$$ than automotive steel/ aluminum ... negating somewhat these savings...
So a 200 kwh battery weighs around 2600 pounds and 12-gauge Stainless Steel weighs around 5 pounds per square foot. I think the Cybertruck will be pushing just over 7,000 pounds. They will save some weight with a composite bed floor.
IIRC, folks failed to test this at the Petersen when Franz was distracted by being on the stage. I can confirm that the cover opens and closes very easily, with the push of a button so it is little effort to open it even a little way.
Final product may differ from the prototype, however.
More than 2x / year, for either activity !?
vs. the reality revealed by a somewhat recent survey, that revealed 75% of truck owners use their truck to tow about once a year and 35% of owners actually haul something more than once a year.
You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume
The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.
www.thedrive.com
Because Model Y is slower, has lower range for equivalent trim, handles worse, is less efficient, and priced at a premium over Model 3.
Pretty straight forward.
A lot easier to get in/out of? Maybe if you are over 80, or have a physical disability.
Rear storage opening form-factor is of little practical value, and the US market has a long history of discounting rear hatch equipped vehicles.
Seven-seat option is a fraud, as they are unusable (no leg room) if 2nd row of seats are actually occupied. Never mind that 3rd row is practically inaccessible. It's a joke.
I'm happy you like your vehicle.
Suggesting that the rest of US buyers choose for the reason you sited is a stretch.
Americans large large cars that sit far off the ground. Sales people call that "command seating position". Thus, SUVs and Trucks continue to sell well.
Not because they go off-road or can tow, but because they are big and high off the ground. Though that comes at the expense of handling and efficiency, folks still flock to that form function.
Good for Tesla for targeting that market.
But it certainly does not exist because those vehicles actually go off-road or actually tow.
It's a poser market, and Tesla is cashing in on that fad.
.. or looks.
For a while, what CT had going for it was value proposition: speed + towing + range, for a price.
Now that the price is going up, the value prop is going down, down, down.
Tesla will sell AS MANY as it can at the initial inflated prices, and THEN will start dropping them in response to supply exceeding demand.
BTDT.
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You could have stopped at the MY is slower, lower range, MUCH less efficient, handles worse, and priced higher. Those are factual.More than 2x / year, for either activity !?
vs. the reality revealed by a somewhat recent survey, that revealed 75% of truck owners use their truck to tow about once a year and 35% of owners actually haul something more than once a year.
You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume
The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.
Because Model Y is slower, has lower range for equivalent trim, handles worse, is less efficient, and priced at a premium over Model 3.
Pretty straight forward.
A lot easier to get in/out of? Maybe if you are over 80, or have a physical disability.
Rear storage opening form-factor is of little practical value, and the US market has a long history of discounting rear hatch equipped vehicles.
Seven-seat option is a fraud, as they are unusable (no leg room) if 2nd row of seats are actually occupied. Never mind that 3rd row is practically inaccessible. It's a joke.
I'm happy you like your vehicle.
Suggesting that the rest of US buyers choose for the reason you sited is a stretch.
Americans large large cars that sit far off the ground. Sales people call that "command seating position". Thus, SUVs and Trucks continue to sell well.
Not because they go off-road or can tow, but because they are big and high off the ground. Though that comes at the expense of handling and efficiency, folks still flock to that form function.
Good for Tesla for targeting that market.
But it certainly does not exist because those vehicles actually go off-road or actually tow.
It's a poser market, and Tesla is cashing in on that fad.
Your attack about easier to get in and out of is odd. The M3/MS are ridiculously low to the ground. Taller people struggle getting in and out. It would be like someone calling you a midget for enjoying the 3. People have preferences and many dislike cars being as low as the 3/Y.
The interior space and storage space is much larger in the Y than the 3, the rear legroom is way better, and there is a real 3rd row option that many use often, even if it is ridiculously cramped. You can believe these are not selling points for yourself, but they are for a majority of buyers (far more than speed, handling, etc).
I don't think anyone believes the MY is an off-road or primary towing vehicle,
It's all based on opinions. Most people prefer the MY to the M3 globally as the sales show. My biggest qualm with the MY (having owned a 3,S,Y) is the range at highway speeds is terrible. The shape makes the car awful on road trips and if you like to go over 75, plan on stopping every 180 miles or so (in the best conditions).
The CT, like the Lightning or any BEV truck, will see an even bigger hit on highway range as drag is the biggest factor in that. The CT will be heavier (higher rolling resistance) and have worse drag than the MY or the MX. That's why so many want a large battery because it's known that towing and highway driving will severely impact the stated range.
aaah. MY AWD 330 miles EPA; M3 AWD 333 miles EPA... such a vast range difference. OMG.More than 2x / year, for either activity !?
vs. the reality revealed by a somewhat recent survey, that revealed 75% of truck owners use their truck to tow about once a year and 35% of owners actually haul something more than once a year.
You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume
The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.
Because Model Y is slower, has lower range for equivalent trim, handles worse, is less efficient, and priced at a premium over Model 3.
Pretty straight forward.
A lot easier to get in/out of? Maybe if you are over 80, or have a physical disability.
Rear storage opening form-factor is of little practical value, and the US market has a long history of discounting rear hatch equipped vehicles.
Seven-seat option is a fraud, as they are unusable (no leg room) if 2nd row of seats are actually occupied. Never mind that 3rd row is practically inaccessible. It's a joke.
I'm happy you like your vehicle.
Suggesting that the rest of US buyers choose for the reason you sited is a stretch.
Americans large large cars that sit far off the ground. Sales people call that "command seating position". Thus, SUVs and Trucks continue to sell well.
Not because they go off-road or can tow, but because they are big and high off the ground. Though that comes at the expense of handling and efficiency, folks still flock to that form function.
Good for Tesla for targeting that market.
But it certainly does not exist because those vehicles actually go off-road or actually tow.
It's a poser market, and Tesla is cashing in on that fad.
agree though that at highway speeds the delta will grow.
that being said... on even slightly steep parking garage ramps my stock Model 3 AWD can bottom out if you are not careful. I would get a Y / Mach E next time and not again a 3 with non existent ground clearance... every inch really helps...
gtae07
Member
And while technically true, most of those don't matter to the average buyer, as you note.
Slower? Who cares? The MY still accelerates pretty darned quick (certainly better than anything else most people have ever driven) and top speed doesn't matter when even interstates top out in the 70-80 range.
Less efficient? Yeah, but still better than most other vehicles out there, and it's still a lot cheaper per mile than a gas vehicle. I don't think "lowest kWh/mi" is nearly the figure of merit in EV purchasing as MPG, since the "fuel" is so much cheaper. EV buyers seem to care much more about (1) range (2) charger network and (3) charging speed (which yes, efficiency affects to a point, but only by a couple minutes).
Handles worse? Again, perhaps, but still far better than anything else most people have driven. Maybe my uncle's BMW 540 I drove twenty years ago might be better (I don't remember)... but my MY sure beats the pants off the Focuses (Foci?), F150, Odyssey, Matrix, Tucson, Mustang, Ranger, C-Max, Maxima, Explorer, and Caravan that I've driven over the years.
Priced higher? Sure. But they still sell more of them...
Most of my driving experience has been in little hatchbacks, which were great till we got a kid. The hatch made loading/unloading super easy and I could cram an absurd amount of stuff in there with the seats folded down. Hatches are great if you're loading things that are larger than grocery bags or rollaboard-size suitcases. Makes Costo runs a lot easier too. When I was moving back and forth from Savannah to Atlanta every semester I was carting my computer desk and chair, two big CRT monitors, clothes, bedding, full cooking supplies, food, tools, and more in a Focus. I even pulled a utility trailer and a sailboat with that little car, and now that I sold my truck I'm back to pulling trailers on a relatively frequent basis. They MY does great--but I'm not going far, just around town.
It wasn't until we went through a couple of larger vehicles and then I went back to a Focus that I really appreciated the higher seat (punishing workouts, bad joints, sore muscles, and sports injuries will do that), both for entry/exit and just comfort while seated for extended periods. I've also come to really appreciate handicap-height toilets...
Heck, my inability to sit still and my wife's bladder mean we're stopping at least every 150 miles or so, if not more frequently...
I've driven a M3 before (that experience is what convinced me I wanted a Tesla) but the MY better suits us even if it isn't quite as sporty. Even the guy who owned said M3 would have rather had a MY for the seating height--but the lower car was easier for his dog and (really short) girlfriend to get in and out of.
Not sure why you quoted me. I agree that it's obvious many see the MY as a better choice/value than the Model 3, but it's subjective.
I don’t agree guys
Totally different vehicles addressing different needs
MY utility, for when you want that 5% need of space, towing, etc but also a fun daily driver
M3 fun/fun, for when you don’t want the 5% need, ok with sacrificing lack of utility
I never compare M3 to MY
You start with what do we need
We went from a truck to the MY, because CT is not available yet
Second time, we wanted a car, we did the M3
Totally different vehicles addressing different needs
MY utility, for when you want that 5% need of space, towing, etc but also a fun daily driver
M3 fun/fun, for when you don’t want the 5% need, ok with sacrificing lack of utility
I never compare M3 to MY
You start with what do we need
We went from a truck to the MY, because CT is not available yet
Second time, we wanted a car, we did the M3
What don't you agree with? The Model Y is the more popular car for the reasons listed. It doesn't mean the M3 sucks, just a different car.
Similar buyers, though.
The CT buyers will eat into M3, MS, MX, and MY buyers.
Absolutely a different class of vehicle.
I don't see where anyone has disagreed with you.
that's why the CT will cost a lot more than the Nov '19 teased "starting at $39k" ... pricing is one way of separation. if the Cybertruck with 300+ miles of range only costs a few $k more than the Model Y ... the Cybertruck will cannibalize high margin Model Y sales for the folks who gladly take more space and more offroad for just a bit more $. Kinda like the Model Y outsells the 3 which is only a few $k cheaper in the AWD version.
if the Cybertruck is priced ~$20k above the Model Y and still $10-20k below the X ... then cannibalization is less. Assuming Tesla prefers keeping X sales where they are.
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