Launch is Imminent

[uscbucsfan]

A Cybertruck with 450 mile range (even with the $16k, ~1000 lb bed consuming range extender), will be few and far between.

Agreed.

 

[afadeev]

Well, it happened.
Could have gone better. In many ways.
Could have gone worse. Franz could have broken another window with his girly baseball toss.

It will be interesting to see what it costs to insure one.

Has anyone been convinced to convert their deposits into actual orders?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Well, it happened.
Could have gone better. In many ways.
Could have gone worse. Franz could have broken another window with his girly baseball toss.

Has anyone been convinced to convert their deposits into actual orders?

There's a post saying deliveries will start in California and Texas in December and expand next year.

I was 90% all in, but now like 90% sure I won't get one. I've also read that AP or FSD doesn't work yet in them...when the event gas so few details, rumors will spread.

 

[tangible1]

It’s much more than just a pity party for anyone counting on 500 miles of range for towing purposes I assure you.

I would stay away from EVs for towing, unless it's short range or access to Superchargers is easy.
ICE remains the solution for towing for now.
Even if 500 miles had been offered on the CT, the towing range would likely be low anyway.
Given time, we will come to know what to expect of the CT and towing, and I believe it will be class leading.....but that doesn't mean good enough.

 

[tangible1]

Well, it happened.
Could have gone better. In many ways.
Could have gone worse. Franz could have broken another window with his girly baseball toss.

It will be interesting to see what it costs to insure one.

Has anyone been convinced to convert their deposits into actual orders?

yeah, Franz is definitely needing to clean up that girly toss move.

 

[tangible1]

The Silverado will have their Ultium battery. The battery sections are replaceable on a per section basis, and can be mixed with newer chemistry versions as their devevolped. The battery has been designed for long-term parts availability, as lessons were learned from the Volt and Bolt. I wouldn't have any concerns with that battery.

same battery chemistry as the fires in Bolts. Uses pouches not cells. Munro teardown shows a battery pack constructed using cheap steel welded stampings. heavy.
I'm not excited.
But the Silverado EV, remains a good concept. Ultrium sounds like a good concept. Execution remains to be seen.
Now GM needs to deliver (late). I will not take an early article from them. Tesla now, yes. GM No.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m not quite seeing how this compares well with the Silverado EV that actually delivers 450 miles of range from the large pack. I’m on several Silverado EV forums and I’m seeing several real world ranges over 500 miles of range unloaded. Rumor is that GM is undergoing another round of EPA testing with recent improvements that may boost the official EPA rating up to 500 miles officially for the 213kwh pack. That’s pretty impressive especially considering what we just witnessed today at the CT launch event.

Silverado:
8500 pounds
~213kWh pack
53kWh per 100 miles (63MPGe)
Range 450 miles

Cybertruck:
6600 pounds
~131kWh pack
42.9kWh per 100 miles (78.5MPGe)
Range 340 miles

It's pretty clear the difference is that Tesla is either unwilling or has not figured out how to pack the Cybertruck with enough energy. Short of a ridiculous block of batteries in the bed.

But overall, the Cybertruck has 18% lower energy costs. And it's 1900 pounds lighter (a part of that is due to it having 80kWh less battery, which would be at least 800 pounds I think!) Of course, there is a critical EPA scaling factor (the legal cheat code which Tesla likes to use) which we'll have to assess when it is available, to get these efficiency numbers to be properly normalized to one another. It could be as much as a 10% correction, but in the worst case (Tesla uses 0.77 and Chevy uses 0.7) the Tesla will be about 8% lower energy cost per mile.

Another question is which tires were used to obtain these ratings. (This is critical and must be resolved before any comparison can be made. My working assumption is ATs for the Cybertruck ratings (which works in CT's favor) but that is not 100% clear at the moment.) If 340 miles was done with ATs (no idea, but the various statements today (and the spare being an AT) suggest it was), then it's reasonable to conclude that CT with optimized street tires would do about 380 miles EPA. To me that seems actually way too good, so I think one of my assumptions is wrong. Either that or Tesla has figured out how to do a fantastically efficient drivetrain.

So that is the way the Cybertruck compares well to the Silverado. It's definitely way lighter, and it may be considerably more efficient (TBD).


Personally I think it's a bit of a failure on Chevy's part if they can't easily get 500 EPA miles out of a 213kWh pack. That's obscenely large. Where is all that energy going? Compared to CT's alleged efficiency, it's an extra 6kW at 60mph just getting consumed constantly. That's like 5 or 6 hair dryers!

I have a Chevy Spark EV. It's extremely efficient. Not sure what happened over the last 7 years (7 years!!!). It has (had) a ~20kWh pack and got 82 EPA miles. I guess the Koreans knew what they were doing! Admittedly, the OEM tires were apparently designed to minimize contact with the road.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Silverado:
8500 pounds
~213kWh pack
53kWh per 100 miles (63MPGe)
Range 450 miles

Cybertruck:
6600 pounds
~131kWh pack
42.9kWh per 100 miles (78.5MPGe)
Range 340 miles

It's pretty clear the difference is that Tesla is either unwilling or has not figured out how to pack the Cybertruck with enough energy. Short of a ridiculous block of batteries in the bed.

But overall, the Cybertruck has 18% lower energy costs. And it's 1900 pounds lighter (a part of that is due to it having 80kWh less battery, which would be at least 800 pounds I think!) Of course, there is a critical EPA scaling factor (the legal cheat code which Tesla likes to use) which we'll have to assess when it is available, to get these efficiency numbers to be properly normalized to one another. It could be as much as a 10% correction, but in the worst case (Tesla uses 0.77 and Chevy uses 0.7) the Tesla will be about 8% lower energy cost per mile.

Another question is which tires were used to obtain these ratings. (This is critical and must be resolved before any comparison can be made. My working assumption is ATs for the Cybertruck ratings (which works in CT's favor) but that is not 100% clear at the moment.) If 340 miles was done with ATs (no idea, but the various statements today (and the spare being an AT) suggest it was), then it's reasonable to conclude that CT with optimized street tires would do about 380 miles EPA. To me that seems actually way too good, so I think one of my assumptions is wrong. Either that or Tesla has figured out how to do a fantastically efficient drivetrain.

So that is the way the Cybertruck compares well to the Silverado. It's definitely way lighter, and it may be considerably more efficient (TBD).


Personally I think it's a bit of a failure on Chevy's part if they can't easily get 500 EPA miles out of a 213kWh pack. That's obscenely large. Where is all that energy going? Compared to CT's alleged efficiency, it's an extra 6kW at 60mph just getting consumed constantly. That's like 5 or 6 hair dryers!

I have a Chevy Spark EV. It's extremely efficient. Not sure what happened over the last 7 years. It has (had) a ~20kWh pack and got 82 EPA miles. Admittedly, the OEM tires were apparently designed to minimize contact with the road.

Street tires are not going to give you 40 miles, 10-20 at the most. It’s what I lost in my Lightning when I went to AT’s and low offset wheels.

Farley and Musk both agree that more battery is not a solution and it makes sense. If you are spending almost as much charging as you would be filling up and ICE then what is the point

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Street tires are not going to give you 40 miles, 10-20 at the most. It’s what I lost in my Lightning when I went to AT’s and low offset wheels.

Farley and Musk both agree that more battery is not a solution and it makes sense. If you are spending almost as much charging as you would be filling up and ICE then what is the point

Rivian's official website says:

R1T DM 21": 352 miles (street tires)
R1T DM 20": 307 miles (AT tires).

That's all I've got. Sorry. Since you lost 20 miles in the transition (this is difficult to measure!!!), that means that 40 is about right (since you won't typically get rated range). I trust the instrumented results in any case. They're legit (for what they measure, which is not range), and it looks like Rivian measured it.

Obviously, it depends on the exact tires being transitioned!!! Not all street tires and AT tires are the same.

But 40 miles EPA is perhaps 20-25 highway miles. (This is pretty well known, isn't it?) It's really better to talk in percentages though, since that's physically more representative.

 

[alexgr]

Cybertruck is the best. This is my official opinion. Ford is made by the antisemitic family, and GM is made by Barra. Who cares about details. Look, it is made of fricking stainless steel!

 

[tangible1]

Silverado:
8500 pounds
~213kWh pack
53kWh per 100 miles (63MPGe)
Range 450 miles

Cybertruck:
6600 pounds
~131kWh pack
42.9kWh per 100 miles (78.5MPGe)
Range 340 miles

It's pretty clear the difference is that Tesla is either unwilling or has not figured out how to pack the Cybertruck with enough energy. Short of a ridiculous block of batteries in the bed.

But overall, the Cybertruck has 18% lower energy costs. And it's 1900 pounds lighter (a part of that is due to it having 80kWh less battery, which would be at least 800 pounds I think!) Of course, there is a critical EPA scaling factor (the legal cheat code which Tesla likes to use) which we'll have to assess when it is available, to get these efficiency numbers to be properly normalized to one another. It could be as much as a 10% correction, but in the worst case (Tesla uses 0.77 and Chevy uses 0.7) the Tesla will be about 8% lower energy cost per mile.

Another question is which tires were used to obtain these ratings. (This is critical and must be resolved before any comparison can be made. My working assumption is ATs for the Cybertruck ratings (which works in CT's favor) but that is not 100% clear at the moment.) If 340 miles was done with ATs (no idea, but the various statements today (and the spare being an AT) suggest it was), then it's reasonable to conclude that CT with optimized street tires would do about 380 miles EPA. To me that seems actually way too good, so I think one of my assumptions is wrong. Either that or Tesla has figured out how to do a fantastically efficient drivetrain.

So that is the way the Cybertruck compares well to the Silverado. It's definitely way lighter, and it may be considerably more efficient (TBD).


Personally I think it's a bit of a failure on Chevy's part if they can't easily get 500 EPA miles out of a 213kWh pack. That's obscenely large. Where is all that energy going? Compared to CT's alleged efficiency, it's an extra 6kW at 60mph just getting consumed constantly. That's like 5 or 6 hair dryers!

I have a Chevy Spark EV. It's extremely efficient. Not sure what happened over the last 7 years (7 years!!!). It has (had) a ~20kWh pack and got 82 EPA miles. I guess the Koreans knew what they were doing! Admittedly, the OEM tires were apparently designed to minimize contact with the road.

One other factor.
WHEN is the Silverado deliverable? 2025, 6.....7 ??

 

[T3SLAROD]

Rivian's official website says:

R1T DM 21": 352 miles (street tires)
R1T DM 20": 307 miles (AT tires).

That's all I've got. Sorry. Since you lost 20 miles in the transition (this is difficult to measure!!!), that means that 40 is about right (since you won't typically get rated range). I trust the instrumented results in any case. They're legit (for what they measure, which is not range), and it looks like Rivian measured it.

Obviously, it depends on the exact tires being transitioned!!! Not all street tires and AT tires are the same.

But 40 miles EPA is perhaps 20-25 highway miles. (This is pretty well known, isn't it?) It's really better to talk in percentages though, since that's physically more representative.

View attachment 995340View attachment 995341

You’re right about the type of tire. It could also be 340 with 18” wheels and not 20” wheels, who knows.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You’re right about the type of tire. It could also be 340 with 18” wheels and not 20” wheels, who knows.

18" vs. 20" doesn't really matter. Wheel diameter and weight is a non issue for the most part. It's mostly about the tire.

I guess I'm not sure what you're saying. There are things like whether aero covers are used or not, which matter.

The Rivian 20" wheel looks a bit less aero than the 21" wheel so that is probably a small contributor to the 45-mile difference in range. (Not just the tires.)

Anyway we don't the info we need on the CT yet.

 

[nikolajz1]

I've gotten a lot of entertainment tonight from the typical X Musk shills claiming the removal battery pack is the greatest idea Tesla has ever came up with.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Oof

 

[FastEddieB]

That is pathetic. My Harbor Freight ramps will have to do.

Once the “Reality Distortion Field” effect wears off, there’s a bunch to be disappointed about in the product as delivered. I haven’t given up, but alternatives do seem more appealing now.

 

[EXOTIC1]

First reviews seems very SOLID
100% keeping my order

 

[GNFO]

I’m not quite seeing how this compares well with the Silverado EV that actually delivers 450 miles of range from the large pack. I’m on several Silverado EV forums and I’m seeing several real world ranges over 500 miles of range unloaded. Rumor is that GM is undergoing another round of EPA testing with recent improvements that may boost the official EPA rating up to 500 miles officially for the 213kwh pack. That’s pretty impressive especially considering what we just witnessed today at the CT launch event.

Unfortunately I have to agree. The final details out of this delivery event were the last nails in the coffin for me using my reservation. Does make me sad though because I'm overall a fan of the way Tesla integrates all of the systems and constantly looks to improve the functionality through the software. Been driving ours since 2017, but have held on to our old 2002 Yukon XL for the towing and sheer internal space. Needed the built in ramp for the dogs (no gaps for the paws to fall through and not taking up bed space), a larger opening between the cabin and bed to check/hear the dogs, and the 500 mile range to allow for the up to 50% hit when towing. The "Range Extender" takes up the first 1/3 of the bed, costs another $16K and still doesn't get to 500 miles.

Honestly the Silverado EV with the midgate and a bed cap checks off almost all our personal blocks. Unfortunately that means waiting until at least 2025 for NACS and the non-work truck version, and I hate dealerships with a passion and the practice of charging for every possible "upgrade" and service. I know the Chevy is horribly inefficient compared to the Tesla, too.

Maybe things will shake up more by 2025...

 

[DarkandStormy]

Is a tow hitch standard or an add-on?

 

[FLRifleman]

Street tires are not going to give you 40 miles, 10-20 at the most. It’s what I lost in my Lightning when I went to AT’s and low offset wheels.

Farley and Musk both agree that more battery is not a solution and it makes sense. If you are spending almost as much charging as you would be filling up and ICE then what is the point

Using the testing that has already been done on the F-150 Lightning as a guide, going from All-Season street tires to AT tires resulted in a ~30 mile range hit. Both TFL and State Of Charge has tested this. Also going from the normal wheels to a larger wheel, also resulted in a range hit. The larger wheels that people like to put on trucks for "looks" aren't better. They're worse for several reasons. Since the two models are comparable on range, I'd expect around the same with the CT.