Likelihood of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S

[Dave EV]

I have to agree that the Chademo charging rate is a killer. There's no point in standardizing on a connector that can't deliver enough power. Chademo's limited to 500V @ 125A which is 62.5 KW. That's simply not fast enough to support true long-distance driving.

While currently operational CHAdeMO chargers are only capable of handling up to 125A, the connector itself was designed to handle up to 200A which would provide similar capabilities as a Tesla Supercharger.

But even limited to 125A - you are likely to only see a modest increase in charge times unless you are charging from very close to empty since the charge rate ramps down as the battery fills up.

 

[stopcrazypp]

While currently operational CHAdeMO chargers are only capable of handling up to 125A, the connector itself was designed to handle up to 200A which would provide similar capabilities as a Tesla Supercharger.

But even limited to 125A - you are likely to only see a modest increase in charge times unless you are charging from very close to empty since the charge rate ramps down as the battery fills up.

The only reference to 200A is for the "proposed" connector in the CHAdeMO website:
http://chademo.com/05_concept.html

The actual production connectors and inlets are limited to 120A (inlet/connector), 125A ("next gen" connector) or 150A (Japanese connector):
http://charge.yazaki-group.com/english/product/index.html

And given you are likely to be pulling significantly lower than 500V (most batteries will be pulling closer to 400V), that current limit is a big issue.

Keep in mind the Tesla connector can support up to 120kW (superchargers are capable of this, but the current 85kWh battery pack can't take that kind of charging power because it's not big enough).

As for the whole discussion of the front mounted connectors, I think the time has passed for that to be added (needs rewiring and may impact the frunk).

 

[bluedream42]

Seems technically feasible to create a CHAdeMO convert box since the Superchargers are using 480V DC direct to the battery pack. My guess is that Tesla probably won't engineer one unless it comes under intense pressure from owners.

I read a New York Times article in 2011 where Elon Musk was commenting that other charging standards were "absolutely terrible" and Tesla charging was the most elegant design of any EV. Guess he's not wrong. Using CHAdeMO charging on my Leaf has been trying at times because the connector is overly complicated and seems to be damaged way too easily.

Of course finding an RV park or other 240V high amp circuit would provide faster charging than J1772 at 30 amps in the meantime.

 

[AMPd]

I'd like a seperate plug on the car for the CHAdeMO charger
perhaps on the other side of the car? In the same spot as the current plug?
Won't happen, but it's nice to dream

An adapter is more likely

 

[Robert.Boston]

I read a New York Times article in 2011 where Elon Musk was commenting that other charging standards were "absolutely terrible" and Tesla charging was the most elegant design of any EV. Guess he's not wrong.

When you need power, the only good charging standard is the one used by the EVSE you can get to. With the Leaf, Nissan got a first-mover advantage over Tesla and SAE; regardless of technical inferiority, we can already see CHAdeMO proliferating as a result. Tesla will sell more cars, and generate more profits, if it can offer drivers the option of using CHAdeMO. So, it's just good business sense to invest in developing that adapter, even if only for the North American market.

The no-adapter guideline in Europe is going to come under a lot of fire as standards proliferate; I predict it will be dropped in this decade, particularly as safety data about adapters comes in from North American experience.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Tesla will sell more cars, and generate more profits, if it can offer drivers the option of using CHAdeMO.

I completely agree... Tesla need to stop fighting against the charging infrastructure industry and support what's being deployed on the ground today. If they support the existing standards then nothing prevents them from supporting a proprietary connector as well.

Only yesterday I stopped at a motorway (freeway) services location that had two 32A Type 2 Charging Stations and one 50kW CHAdeMO Charging Station. I sure would be gutted if my shiny new Model S was sipping 7kW while a 2 year old leaf in the next parking space was consuming 50kW.

The no-adapter guideline in Europe is going to come under a lot of fire as standards proliferate; I predict it will be dropped in this decade, particularly as safety data about adapters comes in from North American experience.

Sorry but that isn't going to happen because this requirement is integral to European safety laws (which will not change for anyone). Remember that we already support the adapter requirement by using adapter cables. What we don't allow is adapters at the car.

Only Tesla have gone down this path in Europe.... everyone else just gets it :wink:

 

[doug]

This Japanese article claims that the Model S will be able to use CHAdeMO when it comes to Japan mid 2013. So perhaps there is hope for the rest of the world.

テスラのEV「モデルS」、国内販売モデルはCHAdeMO方式の急速充電に対応へ

 

[widodh]

This Japanese article claims that the Model S will be able to use CHAdeMO when it comes to Japan mid 2013. So perhaps there is hope for the rest of the world.

テスラのEV「モデルS」、国内販売モデルはCHAdeMO方式の急速充電に対応へ

Ah, you can read Japanese now?

Good catch however, interesting!


Sent from my phone, so my apologies for typos.

 

[Johan]

This Japanese article claims that the Model S will be able to use CHAdeMO when it comes to Japan mid 2013. So perhaps there is hope for the rest of the world.

テスラのEV「モデルS」、国内販売モデルはCHAdeMO方式の急速充電に対応へ

Very interesting. May I enquire how you found that article???

 

[FlasherZ]

...and an adaptor it is:

Model for Japan domestic sales of EV "(Model S) Model S" sedan type, Tesla Motors electric vehicle (EV) venture (Tesla) has announced plans to adapt to the rapid charging system CHAdeMO. It is scheduled to be used for connecting adapter and charging connector of Tesla's unique shape, the rapid charging system connector CHAdeMO.

 

[Johan]

...and an adaptor it is:

Model for Japan domestic sales of EV "(Model S) Model S" sedan type, Tesla Motors electric vehicle (EV) venture (Tesla) has announced plans to adapt to the rapid charging system CHAdeMO. It is scheduled to be used for connecting adapter and charging connector of Tesla's unique shape, the rapid charging system connector CHAdeMO.

Yeah Google translate sucks at Japanese . However, this would suggest that they are talking about an adaptor as opposed to a CHAdeMO port on the car. I guess adaptors are allowed in Japan?

I wonder what the source of this information is, and how credible it is. Maybe it's a low confidence source, like we've had some scattered reports of sales reps and what-not (both in the EU and US) stating there will be a CHAdeMO solution of some kind, but never any authorative info on this.

 

[TEG]

Google Translated Twitter

Tesla Model S EV overview of the latest buzz
...(With adapter), which was announced charging method models the latest Tesla model S as corresponding to (Chademo) Chademo

 

[palmer_md]

While it is not supercharger speed a chademo adapter would really be a selling point for the Model S-40. Since you can't supercharge at least you could fast charge.

perhaps they are waiting to announce this adapter to time it with the 40 production.

 

[sublimaze1]

to springboard off palmer_md

(and go even way off on an analogy plank)

Tesla, I think we agree, is like Apple and for the moment, let's say that Leaf, Volt, Fisker, etc. are like PC. Lots of clones, but none quite as refined as Tesla.

Move this thought motif to the charging.

Tesla found a supercharger that works for its car and works well. It doesn't work for the PC. Pretend we are in 2005. On comes people who want to use non Tesla charging modes for their car because, well, they want to.

The J1772 is like Microsoft office. Tesla sees the value, and offers the adaptor. Apple allows Microsoft to market the Mac brand of Office ... similar issue.

Now we have someone who wants a boot camp for their Model S so that they can run Windows. Why? Who knows. Whatever. But it is now being asked for.

So the Chademo is the Windows and the adapter will be the boot camp. I don't think boot camp was all the fah-shizzle when it came out, but - again - there was a demand and that demand was met.

Something will happen where We in Dallas and Houston can use the evGo fast charge network. It may not be practical (or as practical as what we are using today). But neither was boot camp initially.

Sorry for the analogy. Both my teenagers leave the room when I start something like this.

WJ

 

[meloccom]

While it is not supercharger speed a chademo adapter would really be a selling point for the Model S-40. Since you can't supercharge at least you could fast charge.

perhaps they are waiting to announce this adapter to time it with the 40 production.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't think 40 Kw h cars will ever be Chademo compatible.
To my understanding the 10Kwh charger\s on the model S are AC to DC chargers whilst Supercharging and Chademo are high voltage DC to DC charging.
As the Supercharging option is not available on the 40Kwh model It lacks any DC to DC charger which is likely needed for any Chademo compatibility.
Feel free to shoot my logic down if anyone disagrees.

 

[palmer_md]

Your correct. Without the bypass relay included in the supercharger hardware it won't be possible. That's a real shame because the S-40 is the car that could use the adapter the most.

 

[dhrivnak]

A big plus is there are MANY CHAdeMO stations around the country but very few super chargers. In Tennessee we have 14 Cracker Barrels with CHAdeMO right by the interstate and NO Super chargers within 400 miles of the state. While not as good as Tesla's Super charger they are FAR better than J-1772.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Yeah Google translate sucks at Japanese . However, this would suggest that they are talking about an adaptor as opposed to a CHAdeMO port on the car. I guess adaptors are allowed in Japan?

Only Europe restricts use of OEM adaptors. Eventually your regulators will see the high benefit and low risk of allowing same.

 

[dsm363]

to springboard off palmer_md

(and go even way off on an analogy plank)

Tesla, I think we agree, is like Apple and for the moment, let's say that Leaf, Volt, Fisker, etc. are like PC. Lots of clones, but none quite as refined as Tesla.

Move this thought motif to the charging.

Tesla found a supercharger that works for its car and works well. It doesn't work for the PC. Pretend we are in 2005. On comes people who want to use non Tesla charging modes for their car because, well, they want to.

The J1772 is like Microsoft office. Tesla sees the value, and offers the adaptor. Apple allows Microsoft to market the Mac brand of Office ... similar issue.

Now we have someone who wants a boot camp for their Model S so that they can run Windows. Why? Who knows. Whatever. But it is now being asked for.

So the Chademo is the Windows and the adapter will be the boot camp. I don't think boot camp was all the fah-shizzle when it came out, but - again - there was a demand and that demand was met.

Something will happen where We in Dallas and Houston can use the evGo fast charge network. It may not be practical (or as practical as what we are using today). But neither was boot camp initially.

Sorry for the analogy. Both my teenagers leave the room when I start something like this.

WJ

It's funny but I followed that whole analogy without a problem. Nice work!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Given a choice, Tesla has demonstrated they will always pick the adapter. The biggest question mark for CHAdeMO support in the Model S is Europe. Right now Tesla's plan seems to be to redesign a three-phase capable version of the current port in the Model S and then perhaps provide an adapter cable to Mennekes (this works in Europe since most stations have a socket and you provide the cable, whereas in the US they come with the cable built-in).

Of course that plan still does not allow for CHAdeMO without an adapter (since all DC charging stations will come with the cable attached). If the adapter is not allowed in Europe, Tesla might skip CHAdeMO support in Europe altogether (I find it unlikely they will add a separate port).