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Limited Time: 100 kWh Battery Upgrade (S/X), Ludicrous+ Capable, 2 Year Warranty

MorrisonHiker

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Mar 8, 2015
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Colorado
FWIW, I've only seen about a 140kW peak on V3 chargers with my 100kWh battery, and yes, that was at a low SOC and springtime temps (not too hot or cold). Definitely have never seen V3 above 150kW.
We've hit 187 kW on our March 2017 S100D at a v3 Supercharger. I think we've seen close to 150 kW on a v2. Those numbers were attained on long road trips in the summer, when the battery was taken down to 10% or so.
IMG_20200614_085447_041.jpg
 
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mswlogo

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Aug 27, 2018
8,116
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MA, NH
Leaving the car sit at high (>93%) or low (<10%) SoC for extended periods is usually pretty bad. I'm not sure lose-4 miles of range in < 1 day bad, but a couple miles wouldn't be impossible in such a situation, depending on temps. Leaving at a higher SoC is worse than at a lower one for sure. My guess is in your case the BMS took some time while at the lower SoC to calibrate its per-brick capacity and IR estimates at that level (it does some fun stuff to do this using the bleeders and other data), and the end result was a slightly lower than originally estimated capacity. So, probably not fully the result of degradation from letting it sit. If you don't charge to 100% or drop to 0% under 10% every so often (at least a couple times per year), the BMS's estimate can drift a bit.
Is it important for battery health to drain the battery low periodically if you don’t care much about BMS calibration? I occasionally dip below 20% but I have never gone below 10%. I will occasionally charge to 100% and drive immediately. Nominally I’m at 80%.
 
Out of curiosity I'm wondering if the upgrade from S90 to 100kwh is possible without mods, if your battery has already been upgraded to a 90kwh from an original S85. Since 90 to 100 is possible without mods, are there extra vehicle constraints from original S85 Tesla's that have not been adressed for an upgrade to a 90?
 

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
6,064
14,181
Hickory, NC, USA
You mention the pack as not being nerfed. Is the nerfing actually tied to the pack itself, or is it in the BMS state it?

It's the pack, its firmware, and the actual stats of the pack as computed by the BMS that determine supercharging speeds.

E.g. if you take a nerfed pack from one car and put it in another (with a BMS that has no memory of its usage), will it still be nerfed?

The BMS is part of the pack. So if you take a nerfed 85 and put it in a car that has a 100 or similarly not-nerfed pack, that car will now have the nerfed pack and get slower charging speeds.


FWIW, I've only seen about a 140kW peak on V3 chargers with my 100kWh battery, and yes, that was at a low SOC and springtime temps (not too hot or cold). Definitely have never seen V3 above 150kW.
To break 150kW the pack definitely need the pack to be hot and low SoC. And it won't hold it for a very long time, just like the 250kW-capable packs don't hold 250kW for long. One of the benefits of the 100 packs is that they are higher capacity and that 1C is actually 100kW... so 100kW isn't even really fast charging a 100 pack.

We've hit 187 kW on our March 2017 S100D at a v3 Supercharger. I think we've seen close to 150 kW on a v2. Those numbers were attained on long road trips in the summer, when the battery was taken down to 10% or so.
View attachment 811346
Yep, looks about right.

For completeness, to hit > 150kW, you need at least the gen2 charge port (motorized) from the P85D era onward.

Is it important for battery health to drain the battery low periodically if you don’t care much about BMS calibration? I occasionally dip below 20% but I have never gone below 10%. I will occasionally charge to 100% and drive immediately. Nominally I’m at 80%.

For the actual health of the pack? No, not really. It's for the BMS calibration. In theory if you don't get the pack low enough for an extended period of time the BMS can become too optimistic and move your actual shutdown-at-zero point into a positive range value (so, might shutdown at 3 or 5 miles instead of 0), but Tesla has done a lot to mitigate this over the years so should be quite rare.

Nope, for health your big things are don't leave at > 90% for longer than absolutely needed, and don't leave at < 10% for longer than needed. Worst possible thing you can do to the pack is > 90% + heat (basically, Ludicrous+ usage with heating around full SoC is the absolute worst thing you can do to a pack).

Out of curiosity I'm wondering if the upgrade from S90 to 100kwh is possible without mods, if your battery has already been upgraded to a 90kwh from an original S85. Since 90 to 100 is possible without mods, are there extra vehicle constraints from original S85 Tesla's that have not been adressed for an upgrade to a 90?

RWD vehicles never shipped with 100 packs. There's no "100" ... only 100D and "P100D", both dual motor. There is a RWD 90, so that's still standard. There's no official firmware for a RWD 100. Upgrading S85 to S90 is basically drop in + config change + firmware update. Nothing special. S85 to S100 is not so simple.
 

tga

Active Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,195
3,390
New Hampshire
I wasn't really ready to pull the trigger this time, but I'm still interested in the future. A couple of questions:

Since that particular one is reman, they could have any performance inverter in there and not necessarily one related to the 2017 -P variant. I just went through the notes in my inventory system and we have had 9 of that exact part number, but 3 of them had inverters from pre-Q4'2014. So it'd be a bit of a coin toss if it's compatible without additional info (serial number or hardware ID from diagnostic screen or raw PT CAN log). S/N would need to start with T15B or higher.
Is there an easy way for me to figure out what inverter I have?

For completeness, to hit > 150kW, you need at least the gen2 charge port (motorized) from the P85D era onward.
Can the Gen 2 charge port be retrofitted to older cars? Can older cars support >150kW charging (with a pack upgrade)?

Would I need suspension work? Is the + suspension an issue?
 

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
6,064
14,181
Hickory, NC, USA
I wasn't really ready to pull the trigger this time, but I'm still interested in the future. A couple of questions:


Is there an easy way for me to figure out what inverter I have?

You could get a CAN log from the diagnostic port, or pull the aero shield from under the motor and check the serial number. That's pretty much it unless you have a way to access the diagnostic screen.

Can the Gen 2 charge port be retrofitted to older cars? Can older cars support >150kW charging (with a pack upgrade)?

Technically this can be done, but you need to replace part of the inner quarter panel to be able to mount the physically larger gen2 charge port and motorized opener. I know of one person who did this, at great expense, and who doesn't recommend it. I also don't recommend it. Very little gain, considering the amount of time spent outside the gen1 charge port's limit is pretty minimal. You might shave a couple minutes off a charge session at best with an excellent pack.

Would I need suspension work? Is the + suspension an issue?

The + suspension is a variant of the air suspension setup, if I recall correctly, which is calibratable for the added weight of the new pack without issue.
 

tga

Active Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,195
3,390
New Hampshire
You could get a CAN log from the diagnostic port, or pull the aero shield from under the motor and check the serial number. That's pretty much it unless you have a way to access the diagnostic screen.
My inner EE/car geek wish I had diagnostic access, but I don't. When my BMD eventually arrives, can you tell from that?

Technically this can be done, but you need to replace part of the inner quarter panel to be able to mount the physically larger gen2 charge port and motorized opener. I know of one person who did this, at great expense, and who doesn't recommend it. I also don't recommend it. Very little gain, considering the amount of time spent outside the gen1 charge port's limit is pretty minimal. You might shave a couple minutes off a charge session at best with an excellent pack.
Good point, minimal time savings, got it.

The + suspension is a variant of the air suspension setup, if I recall correctly, which is calibratable for the added weight of the new pack without issue.
Yes, modified air suspension.

Thanks!
 

wk057

Vendor & Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
6,064
14,181
Hickory, NC, USA
My inner EE/car geek wish I had diagnostic access, but I don't. When my BMD eventually arrives, can you tell from that?

Ah, yes. The drive unit hardware ID will be available on the BMD dashboard, along with a ton of other information. If it's 21, 23, 25, or 26 then you're golden.

On that note, I'm personally physically assembling more of these things right now at my shop in order to speed up getting more of them pushed out for QA testing before the weekend. Really wanting to get the balance of these units shipped within the next couple of weeks.
 
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The 30-50kW supercharging on my 85 w/200k miles is frustrating. This would be awesome! I have no desire for AP but do enjoy the FUSC. One day!
Recommend you take your S85 in to service and ask them to check and replace louvers. I had super slow charging in my S85 for over a year and thought it was normal, but after the most recent replacement of failed louvers my charging speeds are back to normal-ish. Still slower than I would like but much better and easier to travel long distances again now.

On a hot day above 80 degrees F, I used to charge at 20% SOC less than 70kW rate...After Service fixed my louvers I am above 100kW. Although it falls quickly down to about 80kW but stays at 80kW for much longer than I could remember. And now at 50% SOC I am see above 60kW more often (Very dependednt on outside temperature).
 
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Recommend you take your S85 in to service and ask them to check and replace louvers. I had super slow charging in my S85 for over a year and thought it was normal, but after the most recent replacement of failed louvers my charging speeds are back to normal-ish. Still slower than I would like but much better and easier to travel long distances again now.

On a hot day above 80 degrees F, I used to charge at 20% SOC less than 70kW rate...After Service fixed my louvers I am above 100kW. Although it falls quickly down to about 80kW but stays at 80kW for much longer than I could remember. And now at 50% SOC I am see above 60kW more often (Very dependednt on outside temperature).
Woah! If this is my problem it's a game changer. I can start out at 117kW if under 10% but will rapidly fall to 50kW and anything above 50% SoC and I'm down into the 30s. I will check into this.
 
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tga

Active Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,195
3,390
New Hampshire
Woah! If this is my problem it's a game changer. I can start out at 117kW if under 10% but will rapidly fall to 50kW and anything above 50% SoC and I'm down into the 30s. I will check into this.
A healthy, warm 85 pack, (supercharge rate in kW) + (SOC in %) = 100-110 ish (post chargegate)

Sounds like it @kwjayhawk . Do you ever get out and check to see if the louver vents are opening during super charging?
The fans are probably running full blast, desperately trying to get air through the radiators
 
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A healthy, warm 85 pack, (supercharge rate in kW) + (SOC in %) = 100-110 ish (post chargegate)


The fans are probably running full blast, desperately trying to get air through the radiators
My apologies for hijacking this thread but I have a service center appointment and they have been asking for when supercharging is slow. I replied well take your pick, really. Not being petty- they are all just slow. This is after I had my original 85 battery fail in May2021 and within one month of warranty. New pack came back just same charge speed and same rated range. I’ll create a new thread on what I find if they will see if it is the louvers.
 
Sounds like it @kwjayhawk . Do you ever get out and check to see if the louver vents are opening during super charging?
Keep in mind that just because the fans are cranking at full power doesn't mean the louvers should be open. The two fans on the AC condensers behind the louvers, also pull air through the radiator in the middle. If the coolant needs extra cooling, the outboard louvers will close and the air will be pulled from the middle grilles and through the radiator.
 
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Keep in mind that just because the fans are cranking at full power doesn't mean the louvers should be open. The two fans on the AC condensers behind the louvers, also pull air through the radiator in the middle. If the coolant needs extra cooling, the outboard louvers will close and the air will be pulled from the middle grilles and through the radiator.
@blodg1 you are totally correct. But I definately do see my side louvers opening way more often now after they fixed it. More often than not they should be opening. I took my car in 3 times and twice they said no issues, and for over a year never saw them opening (I would get out at every single superchanrging sessions after fans went on high to look...and nothing), but then 3rd time they said one louver failed...now every single super charging sessions when fans go on high and I get out and look they are open.
 
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It's the pack, its firmware, and the actual stats of the pack as computed by the BMS that determine supercharging speeds.
Do you have any sort of reset you can do to the packs to bypass the reduced supercharging speeds? I would be interested in you doing this to mine if you can. I travel a lot and supercharge a lot and the reduced supercharging speeds are painful.
 

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