Losing enthusiasm for Model 3

[Barklikeadog]

Trucks are the Swiss Army Knife of vehicles, especially CC/LB 4x4s. Load it with a forklift. Load it with skiploader. Load it with a crane. Stand a refrigerator straight up. Haul 4 cars. Haul 10 motorcycles. Haul your home (travel trailer), seat 5 in comfort, win a kinetic energy dispute. And so much more. It does what you make it do. It's a freakin' transformer.

If you can only have 1 vehicle a crewcab truck is as high as you go up the foodchain of function. Sadly, I must say that even the venerable Cargo Van still comes in second. Although they can seat 15 adults, so there's that. You could do that with a 5th wheel legally too, so the pickup wins.

A sedan or UV is either an generic single purpose appliance or a piece of jewelry. They aren't tools.

I think the best part is having it loaded to the gills with luggage, wine, gear, presents... and there's nothing in the front end getting in anyone's way. Nah I'm kiddin, that's making the best
of a bad situation. The best part is when you manage to get a Bambi, that is bigger than you, over the tailgate. Whew!

 

[Barklikeadog]

Trucks need to be able to go into some tough environments. Not sure how much battery capacity would be needed, but definitely more than 300-350 miles. I would say 500 minimum. I take my truck to go camping and the advantage of a ICE vehicle is that I can carry jerry cans full of gas if I am taking a very long road trip into areas without nearby gas stations.

It also needs to be able to haul extra weight while also being drastically more compact than a Semi and have high ground clearance...

So I'm not sure if the battery tech is there yet. Sure, it will work for city trucks but not for those that tow boats and jet skis to lakes during summers or go into the woods for camping.

Would be really cool though.

50k and 500 miles. Get that one done and I'm interested!!

 

[StraightDave]

The more I look at the 3 the more it comes across as a chick car.

 

[igotzzoom]

You have a choice? If you'd gotten a Tesla Model S or X instead of your Avalanche, you'd be in front of the line for a 3. I got mine weeks ago. I wonder if Tesla knows about the Avalanche. Hmmm... 3 - 6 more months?

The difference is the Avalanche cost me $6,000 (used) instead of $80,000+. I also now work from home, so I'm not putting that much CO2 into the atmosphere. $70,000+ is a lot of tanks of gas and/or recharges.

 

[lapolak]

The difference is the Avalanche cost me $6,000 (used) instead of $80,000+... $70,000 is a lot of tanks of gas and/or recharges.

This! The smart side of my brain is telling me "don't buy the 3, get a recent CPO used car for nearly half off! You won't make up the price difference by saving on Gas!".

But...

I commute 53 miles a day, round trip in a car that gets 15mpg in LA traffic. So I'm convincing myself that once LA gas prices (3.53-3.73) are factored in (especially if the Feds increase the Fed Gas Tax by $0.25/g as they are rumored to be planning to fund infrastructure AND once CA switches to its notorious summer time gas prices of $4.00+ and the new state gas tax increase makes it even worse) the delta between a 3 and the cost of buying a CPO German car for around 20-25k and gasing it for 5-8 years (which is how long I have kept all my cars thus far) will be relatively small enough to write off as a indulgence tax for my impulsive, greedy side of the brain .

Just praying that it doesn't turn out to be a lemon. I'm coming from a 2004 BMW 645Ci Convertible that has many creaks, leaks, and a newly rebuilt transmission... so I hope even a troublesome 3 will be an "improvement" hahaha (no excuses for a brand new 56k car to fail on you though).

 

[Dan Detweiler]

The more I look at the 3 the more it comes across as a chick car.

Well, if that's the case then I guess it just brings out the inner woman in me. Love everything about it!

Dan

 

[doubleohwhat]

The more I look at the 3 the more it comes across as a chick car.

Awesome! Lower car insurance!

 

[MXWing]

The more I look at the 3 the more it comes across as a chick car.

What does an i3, Bolt, or Leaf come across to you as?

And I don't think the Model 3 looks like a VW Bug or a Miata so not sure where this comes form.

Are you starting to identify yourself as a chick and wanting to project it to the Model 3?

 

[Phrixotrichus]

What does an i3, Bolt, or Leaf come across to you as?

And I don't think the Model 3 looks like a VW Bug or a Miata so not sure where this comes form.

Are you starting to identify yourself as a chick and wanting to project it to the Model 3?

guys, guys guys, can`t we just agree that any car is beautiful as long as it doesn`t look like this

 

[voip-ninja]

This! The smart side of my brain is telling me "don't buy the 3, get a recent CPO used car for nearly half off! You won't make up the price difference by saving on Gas!".

But...

I commute 53 miles a day, round trip in a car that gets 15mpg in LA traffic. So I'm convincing myself that once LA gas prices (3.53-3.73) are factored in (especially if the Feds increase the Fed Gas Tax by $0.25/g as they are rumored to be planning to fund infrastructure AND once CA switches to its notorious summer time gas prices of $4.00+ and the new state gas tax increase makes it even worse) the delta between a 3 and the cost of buying a CPO German car for around 20-25k and gasing it for 5-8 years (which is how long I have kept all my cars thus far) will be relatively small enough to write off as a indulgence tax for my impulsive, greedy side of the brain .

Just praying that it doesn't turn out to be a lemon. I'm coming from a 2004 BMW 645Ci Convertible that has many creaks, leaks, and a newly rebuilt transmission... so I hope even a troublesome 3 will be an "improvement" hahaha (no excuses for a brand new 56k car to fail on you though).

The Model 3 is never going to make sense from a financial comparison when you are comparing it to a used car.... working yourself into a financial pretzel trying to "justify" it is just plain silly.... especially when you are in SoCal and electric costs are so high that the fuel savings compared to gasoline are much more marginal than they are in many other parts of the country.

You have to compare it to other, similar entry level luxury sedans and see if it makes sense for YOU. That would mean comparing it to purchase/lease of a brand new Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, BMW 3 series.

The only way, even then, that it makes financial sense is if you factor in the generous tax credit(s), and possibly lower maintenance costs over the long haul.

 

[206er]

The Model 3 is never going to make sense from a financial comparison when you are comparing it to a used car.... working yourself into a financial pretzel trying to "justify" it is just plain silly.... especially when you are in SoCal and electric costs are so high that the fuel savings compared to gasoline are much more marginal than they are in many other parts of the country.

You have to compare it to other, similar entry level luxury sedans and see if it makes sense for YOU. That would mean comparing it to purchase/lease of a brand new Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, BMW 3 series.

The only way, even then, that it makes financial sense is if you factor in the generous tax credit(s), and possibly lower maintenance costs over the long haul.

Completely agree. From a pure financial perspective, leasing a XC40 with all regular maintenance included for the life of the lease >>> buying a new Model 3 via loan for us. Added bonus is the Volvo doesn't require premium gas like other luxury cars, so the fuel savings comparison is even worse for the Model 3 for us. I'd really like to see Tesla step up with an all-inclusive subscription plan like Volvo's, but assume that's far far off if they're not even ready to accommodate conventional leasing.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Trucks are the Swiss Army Knife of vehicles, especially CC/LB 4x4s. Load it with a forklift. Load it with skiploader. Load it with a crane. Stand a refrigerator straight up. Haul 4 cars. Haul 10 motorcycles. Haul your home (travel trailer), seat 5 in comfort, win a kinetic energy dispute. And so much more. It does what you make it do. It's a freakin' transformer.

If you can only have 1 vehicle a crewcab truck is as high as you go up the foodchain of function. Sadly, I must say that even the venerable Cargo Van still comes in second. Although they can seat 15 adults, so there's that. You could do that with a 5th wheel legally too, so the pickup wins.

A sedan or UV is either an generic single purpose appliance or a piece of jewelry. They aren't tools.

How did we let ohmman turn a model 3 enthusiasm thread into truck-talk? AGAIN

 

[McRat]

What does any of this have to do with self-worth?

Uh oh... you asked. I thought you'd know better by now. You once more fell into my 'on topic' trap.

If any vehicle would increase of the value of a person by it's very existence not it's price, it would be the pickup. Worth. Self. Value. Personal.

Lots of folk, especially in California, use vehicles to bolster their egos. Lambos are convertibles for a reason. Some use pickups. Some use (fill in the blank). But not everyone.

Personally I don't like 'image' vehicles. I like sleepers or function based vehicles. So now I can spin the topic back from whence it came, because this directly affects the Model 3. Is the Model 3 form-focused or function-based? It depends on what your expectations were.

After reading the brief track review of the Model 3, my enthusiasm is waning also. Tesla has compared it to sport sedans, but I'm not convinced the engineers were kept in the loop. Who would put baby brakes on a 2018 sport sedan and lock the stability control? Make weight additions mandatory. I still have a 3080lb RWD V8 go-cart that is riot to abuse, but I wanted an electric one this year. It's not happening unless the iPace is better than it's specs would indicate. Tesla isn't selling a sport anything this year (or next) to the best of my knowledge.

If my number comes up in the queue this year (unlikely mathematically, I expect my third bump ~April after the conference call into Q3/Q4), I have to decide if just the 'image' of a Tesla 'Sport Sedan' is worth it. Because while it might look like a sport sedan, it's probably not, just like the MS. Maybe the small battery version will be better. We will see.

So should I buy a Model 3 so my neighbors can see I drive a fashionable eco car (which doesn't faze them or me) that is both bigger and smaller than it could/should be, while pining for a sportier car? Or just get a more practical EV AND a new small sport car for the same money?

Obviously in today's situation anyone can buy a Model 3 tomorrow, or get a custom one in 6 weeks. The scalping price is now $0-$10,000 above MSRP including sales tax and rebates even with the low production volume. The question is: "Is it the car you really wanted it to be?" If so, grab one. Somebody 'gave' away a Model 3 configured exactly how I'd order it, blue, 19", EAP with no buyer's premium. Cut right to the front of the line. Saw it when it was posted. I know I have to buy another 'work' car this year, but I didn't. Perhaps if the track review hadn't been posted I would have.

Image isn't worth anything to me, so the car has to have it's value. I don't actually commute. I don't drive long distances in sedans. I love goofing off at AutoX events and track events.

So has my enthusiasm waned? Well I believe in EVs as a superior powertrain technology, I believe in Tesla's methods of increasing EV acceptance, but I now worry I'll end up with a car that I don't want after 2020 when other EV options become available that are more sport oriented.

 

[xav-]

Completely agree. From a pure financial perspective, leasing a XC40 with all regular maintenance included for the life of the lease >>> buying a new Model 3 via loan for us. Added bonus is the Volvo doesn't require premium gas like other luxury cars, so the fuel savings comparison is even worse for the Model 3 for us. I'd really like to see Tesla step up with an all-inclusive subscription plan like Volvo's, but assume that's far far off if they're not even ready to accommodate conventional leasing.

If you are to compare a model 3 against a lease or something like a subscription... it is likely cheaper:
- you buy it now and get $7,500 off
- tax credit will expire soon
- How much do you think a loaded $60k OTD model 3 with low miles / active warranty will be worth in 2 years? Let's be conservative and assume $45k. That's $7,500 once you factor in tax credit.

That's $312 a month, and I am very conservative. I don't even take into account state tax credit and the savings in electricity . Most likely it will be far less than your Volvo SUV... and maintenance? What maintenance? There is no maintenance on the 3.

Compare apples to apples

 

[Stirfelt]

Actually, I think loosing some enthusiasm (hype, emotion) is a good thing. I always strive to make major purchases well researched and thought-out, financially sustainable, and after several years of ownership, it will have been proven to have been a wise purchase.

I think the Tesla 3 could satisfy my criteria ..... but Tesla needs to "get their act together."
I am very saddened by continuing reports of fit and finish issues, most recent the "sunken hood."
Fortunately, I am content to wait. I want to see how the repair history works out as well as insurance cost before putting my family is financial "irons." (a sailing term)

The 3 is an absolutely beautiful car. It is innovative, and a "forerunner" of future automobiles.
But a great design is only good if it is executed (manufactured) well.
I know it is human nature to post more negative comments than positive, too bad, because its skews the readers ability to evaluate comments.
The real test will arrive when the federal tax credits expire. We will then be able to better judge the enthusiasm for the vehicle.

 

[N5329K]

The Model 3 is never going to make sense from a financial comparison when you are comparing it to a used car.... working yourself into a financial pretzel trying to "justify" it is just plain silly.... especially when you are in SoCal and electric costs are so high that the fuel savings compared to gasoline are much more marginal than they are in many other parts of the country.

You have to compare it to other, similar entry level luxury sedans and see if it makes sense for YOU. That would mean comparing it to purchase/lease of a brand new Audi A4, Mercedes C Class, BMW 3 series.

The only way, even then, that it makes financial sense is if you factor in the generous tax credit(s), and possibly lower maintenance costs over the long haul.

Running Model 3 numbers against an existing or used car can be disappointing. When I did it, Model 3 fuel savings vs a modern hybrid would pay for the 15/40 outlet installation costs...after three years. You have to want this car, and be able to compare it to another, newly-purchased vehicle.
Robin

 

[slipnslider]

The more I look at the 3 the more it comes across as a chick car.

Are you insecure about your masculinity STRAIGHTDave?

 

[206er]

If you are to compare a model 3 against a lease or something like a subscription... it is likely cheaper:
- you buy it now and get $7,500 off
- tax credit will expire soon
- How much do you think a loaded $60k OTD model 3 with low miles / active warranty will be worth in 2 years? Let's be conservative and assume $45k. That's $7,500 once you factor in tax credit.

That's $312 a month, and I am very conservative. I don't even take into account state tax credit and the savings in electricity . Most likely it will be far less than your Volvo SUV... and maintenance? What maintenance? There is no maintenance on the 3.

Compare apples to apples

Oh, I guess I should've clarified that I was comparing the unicorn $35k version of the 3 to even a decently optioned version of the XC40 in the $39-41k range. The $35k version was the only version I placed a day 1 reservation for, and it looks like the $35k version will not qualify for the full federal tax credit and possibly may never actually end up getting built (much like the original hyped base Model X never actually got built). Plus, there are no real EV tax incentives for Washington State, other than exempting the first $32k of the MSRP from state sales tax, though I think this might be capped at a certain number of vehicles, so may not even be an option in the near future.

LOL @ $312/month for a higher end Model 3!

Prior to cancelling my day 1 reservation, the best option I found at the time was $3,500 down (reservation+order payment to Tesla), and then financing the rest at around 3-4% for 84 months, including the $1,000 destination fee (NOT ideal terms). I think the last monthly loan payment I ended up with via calculators was around $430/month, pre-tax credit. Of course, when my est. delivery window for SR got pushed to early 2019 for SR, that meant I'd have to wait for around a year (early 2020) to realize the tax credit, if it were still available/intact. But after spending a few hours with a $49k+ Model 3, I knew I would not be happy with committing anywhere near $430/month to a base model (or even the $49k version).

And I'd like for you to verify the "no maintenance on the Model 3" thing. Even if it's less than the Model S, which is $475 for the first year alone, I doubt it will be competitive with FREE from Volvo (included for the first 3 years) and the $150-200 per year I've paid to have fancy oil changes done on my 4 year-old Acura.

 

[MXWing]

If you are to compare a model 3 against a lease or something like a subscription... it is likely cheaper:
- you buy it now and get $7,500 off
- tax credit will expire soon
- How much do you think a loaded $60k OTD model 3 with low miles / active warranty will be worth in 2 years? Let's be conservative and assume $45k. That's $7,500 once you factor in tax credit.

That's $312 a month, and I am very conservative. I don't even take into account state tax credit and the savings in electricity . Most likely it will be far less than your Volvo SUV... and maintenance? What maintenance? There is no maintenance on the 3.

Compare apples to apples

One is a Volvo and one is a Tesla.

People looking at the only difference between one is gasoline and one is electric. Next thing is some clown is going to tell me their Ford Focus has cruise control and a sensor to alert you when you are not in the same lane.

Totally the same as TACC and Autosteer...

SMH

much like the original hyped base Model X never actually got built

What are you talking about?

I think my non pup MX60D was a lot cheaper than those who got in day 1 (thank you very much to the pioneers, I understand why you got first crack at the Model 3)

 

[MXWing]

Are you insecure about your masculinity STRAIGHTDave?

Let's not define Dave/Davina into masculine/non masculine straight/curvy labels. Davina has the fluidity to imagine herself in a chicky Model 3 all she wants.