And what's wrong with that? What's so great about Ohio that getting there an hour sooner is worth making the trip so unpleasant that your family hates you for it?
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Love It - Not for Long Drives
- Thread starter neisner12
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- Driving Dynamics Model X
A lot of people see the achievement of a shorter driving time as a goal in and of itself, like it's a contest. I once drove straight through from just outside Fargo, ND to Atlanta only stopping for food and gas. It took me about 24 hours. There was no reason for it other than to be able to say I'd done it that quickly.
There is also the fact when you are traveling with young children that on the margin additional driving time is pure hell. Once you get past 3 hours or so the kids start screaming, fighting, etc. to the point where it is virtually unbearable. Prolonging that for an extra hour or two can be too high of a price to pay for driving an EV over an ICE.
There is also the fact when you are traveling with young children that on the margin additional driving time is pure hell. Once you get past 3 hours or so the kids start screaming, fighting, etc. to the point where it is virtually unbearable. Prolonging that for an extra hour or two can be too high of a price to pay for driving an EV over an ICE.
I'm about to embark on a 3500 mile trip hauling my camper, at times through areas without Superchargers. I've done some spreadsheeting of the trip and charging times (since I'll almost always have to charge to 100% and drive no faster than 55mph). My average speed including charging will be in the 35mph range. Some days it'll be less than 30 (no Superchargers).
This is probably at the extreme end of the difference between an ICE and EV. When you're frustrated at a 30 minute stop, think about me.
This is probably at the extreme end of the difference between an ICE and EV. When you're frustrated at a 30 minute stop, think about me.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
A related question -- realistically, what X would I need to get to match the range of my 2014 P85? Anyone have experience with both a P85 and an X that can comment on how the range of one compares to the other?
100% charge on my P85 is about 255-260 miles rated, though I tend to get a bit less with my highway driving. I probably get somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 to 230 miles off a 100% charge. My for driving, I don't think I would want a Tesla that gets less than 200 with my driving style. If I get an X, I don't feel a need to get a P model, so I can probably get a little better range with a non-P which is good.
Note that most of this driving is interstate travel with 70 MPH speed limit. My driving varies a little; sometimes I cruise at around 68 MPH, other times I might average a bit above, up to maybe 75 MPH.
100% charge on my P85 is about 255-260 miles rated, though I tend to get a bit less with my highway driving. I probably get somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 to 230 miles off a 100% charge. My for driving, I don't think I would want a Tesla that gets less than 200 with my driving style. If I get an X, I don't feel a need to get a P model, so I can probably get a little better range with a non-P which is good.
Note that most of this driving is interstate travel with 70 MPH speed limit. My driving varies a little; sometimes I cruise at around 68 MPH, other times I might average a bit above, up to maybe 75 MPH.
owen.shift
Member
Of those 86 kWh, only 81.8 are actually usable. The 100 battery, on the other hand, is bigger than advertised (102.4 kWh with 98.4 usable); which means it has pretty much exactly 20% more capacity. That should safely give you 15% more real world range.
I have a P85 and an X90D. My 3+ year old P85 has slightly more range than my 1+ year old X90D. The 90 pack has degraded more in a year than my 85 pack has in 3 years, which appears to be not abnormal for those packs. Though, it seems to have tapered off. I think to match (and exceed) the range on your P85, you'd want a X100D.
MXFan
Member
The X90D would about the same as your P85.
But the X100D would give you 45 miles more range for not much more.
We are a family that used to take long trips and try to efficiently time our bathroom/food breaks with filling up with gas (similar to @Yinn). Our stops were always those highway stations (Enroute stations in Ontario, Canada) and we stopped only for 5-7 minutes at a time (luckily, I have a very strong bladder and can fill-up the car while everyone else takes a bathroom break and gets me some food). I liked this approach, but it was primarily dictated by my wife.
It was hard convincing the family to take the X on long road trips (takes 1-2 hours longer), but we've done it twice now. I agree with the OP that it take significant more time with an EV and that's something you have to deal with right now. For me, I try to take the X over our gas vehicle whenever possible, even on long trips because (a) it's fun to drive and (b) it doesn't pollute. Therefore, sacrificing time was worth it to me. I'm not so sure about the rest of my family.
On our last trip, my wife downloaded a bunch of Netflix shows (13 reasons why) and watched a bunch of episodes on the drive. I think that really relaxed her about the extended charging, so it may be a good work-around until V3 super-charging is available.
I fully expect things to get better with more super-chargers and faster super-charging in the coming years.
It was hard convincing the family to take the X on long road trips (takes 1-2 hours longer), but we've done it twice now. I agree with the OP that it take significant more time with an EV and that's something you have to deal with right now. For me, I try to take the X over our gas vehicle whenever possible, even on long trips because (a) it's fun to drive and (b) it doesn't pollute. Therefore, sacrificing time was worth it to me. I'm not so sure about the rest of my family.
On our last trip, my wife downloaded a bunch of Netflix shows (13 reasons why) and watched a bunch of episodes on the drive. I think that really relaxed her about the extended charging, so it may be a good work-around until V3 super-charging is available.
I fully expect things to get better with more super-chargers and faster super-charging in the coming years.
Ah, so you family then became too depressed to complain about anything. Smart move.
Car and Driver did a 40,000 mile test of the P85D and had this to say about road trips in the car. It's my experience as well.
"Any trip that requires one or two Supercharger stops is relatively painless. Anything longer, however, quickly becomes tedious. Our coast-to-coast routine involved two or three hours of driving, followed by about 45 minutes of charging, rinse, repeat. We covered 3647 miles in four days, spending 57 hours behind the wheel and another 15 hours, 22 minutes plugged in (not including overnight charging). The slightly slower pace necessary (speed kills range) and the frequent extended stops mean a long-haul Tesla travels at Teamster speed. We passed and drafted familiar trucks for days at a time through middle America, but the real inconvenience is that your meals are dictated by Supercharger locations. Some stops are so bereft of services that you’ll yearn for the chance to eat at a Cracker Barrel."
One of the things I enjoy about road trips is being able to hit some of the local restaurants (Yelp makes for a great tool in finding the local stars). 99 or more times out of 100, those restaurants are not anywhere near a supercharger. Instead, you get chain/fast food places while you're supercharging. Huge downside for me. If I'm going to take a 45+ minute driving break for food, I want it to be a good meal, not a Starbucks and a Subway sandwich.
"Any trip that requires one or two Supercharger stops is relatively painless. Anything longer, however, quickly becomes tedious. Our coast-to-coast routine involved two or three hours of driving, followed by about 45 minutes of charging, rinse, repeat. We covered 3647 miles in four days, spending 57 hours behind the wheel and another 15 hours, 22 minutes plugged in (not including overnight charging). The slightly slower pace necessary (speed kills range) and the frequent extended stops mean a long-haul Tesla travels at Teamster speed. We passed and drafted familiar trucks for days at a time through middle America, but the real inconvenience is that your meals are dictated by Supercharger locations. Some stops are so bereft of services that you’ll yearn for the chance to eat at a Cracker Barrel."
One of the things I enjoy about road trips is being able to hit some of the local restaurants (Yelp makes for a great tool in finding the local stars). 99 or more times out of 100, those restaurants are not anywhere near a supercharger. Instead, you get chain/fast food places while you're supercharging. Huge downside for me. If I'm going to take a 45+ minute driving break for food, I want it to be a good meal, not a Starbucks and a Subway sandwich.
mkspeedr
Member
I agree, if your trip requires more than 2 supercharger stops and you have limited time the model S is not the best choice.
But if you have some time and you have some planning skills. We often bring/buy good food - use a folding aluminum picnic table that fits perfectly into the bottom secondary trunk space - enjoy the trip.
But if you have some time and you have some planning skills. We often bring/buy good food - use a folding aluminum picnic table that fits perfectly into the bottom secondary trunk space - enjoy the trip.
We had a bit of range anxiety so stopped at all SCs along the way - Gilroy, Harris, Buttonwillow, Mojave, Barstow, Primm
If you are ok going below 20% soc when you arrive at next SC, you can probably skip Gilroy, Mojave and Primm.
Olle
Active Member
Ok. Some EV trips can take longer and some can be quicker than ICE trips. On our trip through the FL Keys and Everglades last week we actually spent less time on the road than we would have in an ICE car. Stayed exclusively at hotels with destination charging and spent zero time supercharging. Should also add that we had lunch a couple of times along the way at destination charge restaurants. Didn't really need the extra miles on this trip but these restaurants are so abundant so why not take advantage of it.
We did almost the same trip April 2016 and it was much more of a struggle. Chargers are popping up everywhere at an exponential rate now because vendors want to attract travelers.
Not sure if this answers OP's concerns but after this trip I started to realize the inevitable. Soon every parking lot will have some sort of destination or even quick charger. There is too much of a win-win for it not to happen. The ICE travel time advantage will be a thing of the past.
Pic is from Hyatt Coral Gables where the Tesla parking spots are right by the elevator whereas other guests have to walk further or wait for valet attendant so saved a few minutes that way too.
We did almost the same trip April 2016 and it was much more of a struggle. Chargers are popping up everywhere at an exponential rate now because vendors want to attract travelers.
Not sure if this answers OP's concerns but after this trip I started to realize the inevitable. Soon every parking lot will have some sort of destination or even quick charger. There is too much of a win-win for it not to happen. The ICE travel time advantage will be a thing of the past.
Pic is from Hyatt Coral Gables where the Tesla parking spots are right by the elevator whereas other guests have to walk further or wait for valet attendant so saved a few minutes that way too.
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Erleichda
Member
Range anxiety was a Tesla roadster in Oregon Wine country 2012. Had to know all the RV parks. No destination charging.
Then in our Model S P85 we stopped in the Dalles SC, made a wrong turn (back when a new map feature to help you find best route was launched and buggy) and coasted behind a semi until we crested the last hill into Walla Walla. But had destination HPWC, slept like a baby and going home knew exactly we'd have no trouble making it. This was 2014.
2014 we'd hit Centralia SC but stay at friends in Seattle and hope that we could get a little 100, then hit a Blink station during the day to make it back to Centralia. It worked. But some anxiety.
2016 We hit centralia, stay at a destination charging hotel. Not a worry at all.
2017 our P85 still changes to 250miles in range mode. That's a loss of 8 miles in 50k mi of use/5 years. That's unbelievable.
And now, our MX 100D gets 305mi in range mode. We skip the Centralia SC, arrive in Seattle with 90 mi of charge, valet takes the MX to the HPWC and it is topped off along with all the others and ready to go with full charge in the AM. We parked at the EV charging at Seattle Center and then at Safeco field for u2 concert just because we could but didn't charge. Drove home...skipped the SC.
So, the OP feelings are understood, but also not likely to be relevant to many and not for much longer. As M3 booms, charging will spring up like hotcakes at the traditional gas stations or at convenience marts/restaurants. Rates of charge are going up and up. And once again, you can ignore your state of charge and wait until you notice you are running a little low to pull over and top up just like ICE.
Relax, don't worry. We are almost there.
Then in our Model S P85 we stopped in the Dalles SC, made a wrong turn (back when a new map feature to help you find best route was launched and buggy) and coasted behind a semi until we crested the last hill into Walla Walla. But had destination HPWC, slept like a baby and going home knew exactly we'd have no trouble making it. This was 2014.
2014 we'd hit Centralia SC but stay at friends in Seattle and hope that we could get a little 100, then hit a Blink station during the day to make it back to Centralia. It worked. But some anxiety.
2016 We hit centralia, stay at a destination charging hotel. Not a worry at all.
2017 our P85 still changes to 250miles in range mode. That's a loss of 8 miles in 50k mi of use/5 years. That's unbelievable.
And now, our MX 100D gets 305mi in range mode. We skip the Centralia SC, arrive in Seattle with 90 mi of charge, valet takes the MX to the HPWC and it is topped off along with all the others and ready to go with full charge in the AM. We parked at the EV charging at Seattle Center and then at Safeco field for u2 concert just because we could but didn't charge. Drove home...skipped the SC.
So, the OP feelings are understood, but also not likely to be relevant to many and not for much longer. As M3 booms, charging will spring up like hotcakes at the traditional gas stations or at convenience marts/restaurants. Rates of charge are going up and up. And once again, you can ignore your state of charge and wait until you notice you are running a little low to pull over and top up just like ICE.
Relax, don't worry. We are almost there.
I think this has changed to some degree with increased Supercharger density on many routes. To be sure, it's not there yet, but if one can keep their car charging in the pre-taper segment of the curve, driving speed isn't an issue. It's more when the Supercharger spacing is such that one has to charge well into the taper that "drive slow to arrive sooner" becomes the reality.
I couldn't agree more. Rarely is there a restaurant I want to visit near the Supercharger. I've dropped the family off up to 1.5 miles away from a charger, went and plugged in, and walked to meet them (hello Grant's Pass).
FarmerDave
Member
We did the same on our maiden voyage from PA to Key West 15 months ago. Superchargers are fine, but destination chargers ftw.
How nice to wake up, have a nice breakfast, and drive off with a full "tank"!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I don't mind supercharging on trips but I do see how it can be tedious for some, including my wife.
I also admit to a pleasurable feeling in the winter when it's -30C and I'm driving home with my family over mountain passes in near white out conditions in my Tahoe hybrid that I have a full tank of gas and I can blast the heat without thinking twice about it, and also bypass the supercharger, esp in those condition.
I also admit to a pleasurable feeling in the winter when it's -30C and I'm driving home with my family over mountain passes in near white out conditions in my Tahoe hybrid that I have a full tank of gas and I can blast the heat without thinking twice about it, and also bypass the supercharger, esp in those condition.
kingjamez
Member
I actually keep a small electric kick scooter in the car on long trips for exactly this purpose.
-Jim
I think if you change your definition of a "long trip" to something over 500 miles, then I suppose I'd agree with you. I'm picking up a rental minivan for a "long trip" from my home in Nixa, MO to Captiva, FL (almost 1300 miles) for a number of reasons. 1)The first leg requires a ridiculous detour adding at least 2-3 hours to the overall trip length due to the paucity of chargers b/w my home and Memphis, TN. 2)The charging stops do add to the time, alone that might not be enough to stop us, but with the detours and lack of charging at our destination, it just would have made this trip much more cumbersome.
Short of that, 100 miles, even 300 miles, given reasonable supercharger access is nothing, wouldn't even think of taking a gasser.
Short of that, 100 miles, even 300 miles, given reasonable supercharger access is nothing, wouldn't even think of taking a gasser.
My kids are grown and gone.... but I can tell you the trick we used to use. We always launched our trips early in the morning (Sunrise or before), our "secret sauce" was to let the kids stay up all night watching movies and playing video games the night before a trip. It was very effective at getting them to sleep through long road trips - and minimized pit-stops.
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