Luton Airport Car Park 2 Fire

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Oh, absolutely not. Manchester is the absolute pits.
Mind you, deciding which UK airport is worse is no easy task…

I like Manchester for the station at the airport. Used to be better when Trans-Pennine wouldn't require a change at Picadilly.

They improved the security the last time I used it to stop overcrowding, probably because of Covid, but we'll see. My wife might ban us flying out of Manchester again.

The problem with many other airports for us is that I'd have to change in the USA, and I really don't want to. I prefer to fly direct or via Dublin (brexitmuttermutterpassportmuttermutter.)

 

[lamgineer]

I don't have a smoke detector in my garage. I suppose I'm behind the times.

There is no smoke detector in my relatively new home's garage either (7 years old). I believe the reason is because of false alarm from ICE engine exhaust, but if you only parked EV inside the garage then it is a good idea to install smoke detector.

 

[qwickshot]

Not a good look that the penny pinching Luton airport execs skimped on sprinklers, given it was only build 4 years ago

I have no idea if what would have saved the day, but wouldn't it have quenched the fire enough to stop it developing before the Brigade got there?

I don’t think I’ve ever noticed a multi story car park having a sprinkler system. Underground with a building above, sure but not a multi story. This multi story isn’t even that tall, it was only 4 floors.

Everyone got out and no one was injured. Most fire safety experts would pat themselves on the back for a job well done, as that’s their primary concern.

Would it have helped, sure but would it have stopped the building being a total loss? Debatable. They are not a magic bullet for a fuel fed fire.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Serious question.
Now that the vehicle that started the fire has been pretty unambiguously identified, you can litterally read the number plate on one of the videos, does that mean 1000+ people and Luton airport get to make a claim against that persons insurance?

Claims will go on the individual policies.

LV= already annouced they will waive excess and no-claims will be preserved.

LV= General Insurance reveals how it will support 200 customers affected by Luton Airport fire

'We're making our promises to ensure any affected customers get home safely and easily when returning to the UK,' says claims director

www.insurancetimes.co.uk

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Some aircraft hangers have foam supression. That would be an incredibly bad idea in a public car park.

 

[Cardo]

There is no smoke detector in my relatively new home's garage either (7 years old). I believe the reason is because of false alarm from ICE engine exhaust, but if you only parked EV inside the garage then it is a good idea to install smoke detector.

Rather than a smoke alarm, you could use a heat alarm. This is what tends to be used in kitchens due to the issue of cooking (burning??) smoke setting off alarms.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Water on liquid fuel is not a great idea

[Sprinklers] are not a magic bullet for a fuel fed fire

I have no technical knowledge, but my understanding was that the spray / mist reduces the fire and "cools stuff"

Fire brigade said they had asked Luton to strongly consider putting sprinklers in any new car parks ... but I think I read that in the Daily Mail so ... !!

 

[GRiLLA]

Some aircraft hangers have foam supression. That would be an incredibly bad idea in a public car park.

Cool

Chance of being abused in a public car park for a foam party 100%

 

[Adopado]

Chance of being abused in a public car park for a foam party 100%

Tempting but let's hope nobody actually ever tries that! (Fire fighting foam bubbles are full of CO2 ... could be be deadly)

 

[fholbert]

There is no smoke detector in my relatively new home's garage either (7 years old). I believe the reason is because of false alarm from ICE engine exhaust, but if you only parked EV inside the garage then it is a good idea to install smoke detector.

I thought I might get false alarms from my wife's ICE SUV exhaust. Four months and it's never happened.

I should also say I have Nest Smoke Alarms and CO Detectors. If one goes off, they all go off announcing location and type of alarm through out the house. The alarm is also sent to our phones.

 

[fholbert]

Very surprised to see the car park has steel I beams and a steel deck covered with concrete. The beams don't have a fireproofing coating either. A very inexpensive solution, as long as it stays up in a fire. The car park collapsed because the steel got hot enough to give.

I used to build hi-rise buildings and parking structures as a project superintendent , all parking structures I've seen have concrete columns, concrete beams and a concrete deck, most are cast in place. Many are post tensioned with cables running through the beams and deck. I already pointed out fire sprinklers are required, at least in SoCal.

 

[Jason71]

Very surprised to see the car park has steel I beams and a steel deck covered with concrete. The beams don't have a fireproofing coating either. A very inexpensive solution, as long as it stays up in a fire. The car park collapsed because the steel got hot enough to give.

I used to build hi-rise buildings and parking structures as a project superintendent , all parking structures I've seen have concrete columns, concrete beams and a concrete deck, most are cast in place. Many are post tensioned with cables running through the beams and deck. I already pointed out fire sprinklers are required, at least in SoCal.

View attachment 981866

View attachment 981869

I think it is becoming clear that the car park was built as cheaply as possible and the fire strategy was

 

[WllXM]

What was the carpark capacity? 2000-3000 vehicles?

I guess car insurers were wise to raise premiums +50% this year...

 

[Billbrown1982]

I thought I might get false alarms from my wife's ICE SUV exhaust. Four months and it's never happened.

I should also say I have Nest Smoke Alarms and CO Detectors. If one goes off, they all go off announcing location and type of alarm through out the house. The alarm is also sent to our phones.

View attachment 981863

I really wanted to get some of these as the house is setup for google devices anyway, but can't justify the expense on something that will be thrown away in 10 years

 

[randompixel]

I thought I might get false alarms from my wife's ICE SUV exhaust. Four months and it's never happened.

I should also say I have Nest Smoke Alarms and CO Detectors. If one goes off, they all go off announcing location and type of alarm through out the house. The alarm is also sent to our phones.

View attachment 981863

For anyone in Scotland (on the UK forum), just be careful as it is likely these aren't legal anymore as they don't have non-WiFi interlink nor do they have Heat Detection. Google has shown zero interest in updating them and we've been waiting years for them to gain support in the Google Home app (as someone in England who has 2 of these).

Updates on Nest Protect and pending Scottish legislation changes

Hey everyone, I appreciate everyone’s patience as they’ve shared their feedback and questions regarding the pending Scottish legislation changes. We’re aware of the proposed legislation changes to the fire and smoke alarm standard in Scotland requiring households to have interlinked heat and...

www.googlenestcommunity.com

 

[ACarneiro]

I think it is becoming clear that the car park was built as cheaply as possible

At UK airport??
I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die from that surprise...

Back of a fag packet calculations: 1000 cars, 80% occupancy should be 800 car/days per day.
Let's say £20/day per car (and I'm being conservative here) that's £16k per day, nearly £6 million in revenue per year (minus tax, minus chump change for staff and electricity).
Not a bad racket going on for a shitty construction done on the cheap...

 

[Jason71]

At UK airport??
I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die from that surprise...

Back of a fag packet calculations: 1000 cars, 80% occupancy should be 800 car/days per day.
Let's say £20/day per car (and I'm being conservative here) that's £16k per day, nearly £6 million in revenue per year (minus tax, minus chump change for staff and electricity).
Not a bad racket going on for a shitty construction done on the cheap...

Location, Location, Location

 

[LiamPope]

I posted this earlier in some other discussion. Seems more relevant here! Brief summary of the detailed investigation into the Stavanger Airport fire a few years back...

'2020 the airport car park here in Stavanger caught fire and ended up partially collapsing with several hundred cars destroyed. Norway has very high EV adoption so there was a high proportion of EVs and hybrids in there. The investigation found the fire started with an old ICE and, interestingly, that the overall development and spread of the fire was not more than expected with traditional ICEs. In fact there was little/no evidence of EV batteries directly contributing to the fire by experiencing full-on thermal runaway. I.e. even when an EV catches fire by some external means, it is certainly not guaranteed, nor even likely, that the battery goes up intensely like in those scary thermal runaway incidents you see. The main reasons the fire spread so fast and caused so much damage was lack of automatic fire alarm, lack of fire extinguishing equipment, open facade+wind and spilt liquid fuel from ICEs.

Of course at the time all initial media reports were nothing but 'OMG EV FIRE!!!!'


I'd guess the EV proportion in Luton was way lower than Stavanger. Probably 5% if that. If they didn't think EVs made any difference to the outcome in Stavanger, it certainly didn't in Luton. Could dig out the link to the report if anyone's interested.

 

[Drew57]

I guess the below was inevitable (shared as a joke by one of my contacts on a WhatsApp group & receiving a lot of emoji's/thumbs up etc).

Fires like this are not remembered by the facts, they just reinforce existing perceptions.

 

[Wattsisname]

I guess the below was inevitable (shared as a joke by one of my contacts on a WhatsApp group & receiving a lot of emoji's/thumbs up etc).

Fires like this are not remembered by the facts, they just reinforce existing perceptions.

View attachment 982281

I must be true; it's easier to photoshop a Tesla than an ICE car!