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Mach-E: Ford Mustang Inspired EV
- Thread starter mspohr
- Start date
Solid effort, but the specs show how much farther Tesla is in front. ~100kWh for 270m range, ~330hp for a $58,000 base price (AWD) for the Mach-E vs. 75kWh, 280m range, ~430hp for $52,000 base price (AWD) for the Model Y is a pretty significant gap in cost and performance.
Yes, I think it is Willow Springs just down the road from me. I see lots of auto film from there, Motortrend in particular likes to test cars out there.
SmartElectric
Active Member
Those posting numeric range, power and price comparisons to a Tesla aren’t wrong.
What they fail to identify is that many Ford vehicles are superior to a BMW Audi or MB when measured with some of the same metrics but yet both Ford and German companies sell plenty good enough to stay in business competing in areas that aren’t purely based on numbers.
That Ford has focused the effort and taken the risk to their existing brands like Mustang to release a 300 mile EV with levels of technology and performance that were dominated by Tesla is a great thing for the future of electrified transport.
I know from spending half my time on an auto forum not associated with Tesla that an alternative to Tesla will sell, just because it is an alternative.
Continually quoting the price/performance metrics in this thread is completely factual and IMHO also completely missing the point.
What they fail to identify is that many Ford vehicles are superior to a BMW Audi or MB when measured with some of the same metrics but yet both Ford and German companies sell plenty good enough to stay in business competing in areas that aren’t purely based on numbers.
That Ford has focused the effort and taken the risk to their existing brands like Mustang to release a 300 mile EV with levels of technology and performance that were dominated by Tesla is a great thing for the future of electrified transport.
I know from spending half my time on an auto forum not associated with Tesla that an alternative to Tesla will sell, just because it is an alternative.
Continually quoting the price/performance metrics in this thread is completely factual and IMHO also completely missing the point.
I drove a Ford back when I was a new driver, and after years of lackluster Focus EV and plug-in hybrid offerings, I am also very happy to see Ford offering a compelling EV.
Why does your Model S need replacing? Our 2012 Model S stills looks good and drives wonderfully. The only things "wrong" with it are the lack of Autopilot functionality, AWD, and seating for up to seven, hence our interest in the Model Y.
Yes, it's major progress. Based on the specs and the Supercharger network, the Model Y will be a better value. However, I would be delighted to purchase a Mach E if Tesla vehicles were not available.
AquaMan
Member
That's absolutely true. Cars are a very emotional purchase. Aesthetics are subjective, and people have their biases.
Cars are a status symbol for almost everyone, even for those who claim they're not. It's pretty hard to buy a car without fantasizing about showing it off to friends or family. So, the available colors of paint, or the shape of the dashboard can make the difference, and everyone has their own nit-pick.
I heard someone say they were committed to buy a late model Mustang just because they have those "sequentially blinking 3-bar turn signals". Personally, those "coathanger" doorhandles on this new car turn me off big time, but I like how the knob protrudes right through the glass of the screen. These are silly little things, but they make or break a sale.
It will sell. But I don't think it's a Model Y killer by a long shot.
I hope it does really well. That will encourage Ford to continue making EVs and maybe make some of the other brands who have been lagging really dig in and make great options (I am looking at you Toyota/Lexus)
other than price & interior quality, there really isn’t much difference between a Mustang and BMW 4-Series. That’s what a hundred years of competitive manufacturing will do for you.
As this is the infancy of mass produced EVs this gap is much more significant. A 100kWh pack is substantially heavier and more expensive than a 75kWh pack. This has knock on effects for the overall weight & performance of the car in all sorts of areas.
This doesn’t even start to account for battery & thermal management experience, high speed charging or in-car compute infrastructure advantages that Tesla has.
I’m not knocking the Mach-E, like I said I think it is a solid effort. But Tesla is really far ahead of everyone else.
As this is the infancy of mass produced EVs this gap is much more significant. A 100kWh pack is substantially heavier and more expensive than a 75kWh pack. This has knock on effects for the overall weight & performance of the car in all sorts of areas.
This doesn’t even start to account for battery & thermal management experience, high speed charging or in-car compute infrastructure advantages that Tesla has.
I’m not knocking the Mach-E, like I said I think it is a solid effort. But Tesla is really far ahead of everyone else.
AquaMan
Member
You're making the assumption that SUVs have anything to do with Sport or Utility. In America, the majority of SUVs are sold because people need a minivan but don't want to be seen in a minivan.
SmartElectric
Active Member
It's my wife's car. She doesn't want auto pilot, or better performance, or seven seats. She just doesn't like owning a car out of warranty, pretty much that simple. Me, I want ludicrous mode (and thus AWD) and auto pilot and newer tech so I can geek out, but as I'm not the primary driver, my needs are somewhat secondary eh?
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
I actually like it a lot, looks wise. Space White (looks like Chalk from Porsche) is great. Can't wait to see it in action with real numbers.
First photos of the Mach-E motors and battery pack for those who are into that kinda thing:
Mustang Mach-E powertrain: up close and personal
Mustang Mach-E powertrain: up close and personal
swaltner
Active Member
Has there been any mention of towing capacity? I don’t think they mentioned that on the reveal event. I also poured through the specifications listed on the web site as well as the “configurator” web site, but they really only have trim, paint, interior colors as options now.
My next vehicle to replace the Model 3 and the 16 year old gas pickup “needs” a 2,500 to 5,000 towing capacity. As of now, I’d consider a Model Y, CYBRTRK, or possibly a Rivian or Atlis pickup.
My next vehicle to replace the Model 3 and the 16 year old gas pickup “needs” a 2,500 to 5,000 towing capacity. As of now, I’d consider a Model Y, CYBRTRK, or possibly a Rivian or Atlis pickup.
seattlite2004
Active Member
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
In the presentation the infotech display showed CarPlay.
Well, you have to buy a Subaru, Jeep or jack up the MX to get a proper 8.x"+ ride height. Most other SUV on the market are just for driving over speed bumps.
How Ford's Mustang Mach-E came to be
DETROIT — Two years ago, Jim Farley visited Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn, Mich., design studio to review a long-range battery-electric crossover that had been in development for the past three years.
The new CEO, Jim Hackett, had just tapped Farley as president of global markets, a job that includes overseeing the company's electric vehicle plans. Ford was behind in the segment and sorely needed an EV that could compete with rivals such as General Motors and Tesla.
What he saw — essentially a wagon version of the Focus Electric — wasn't going to cut it.
"He took one look and said, 'No way, no how. You guys are rebooting this program,' " recalled Jason Castriota, brand director for Ford's battery EVs.
The quick rejection was a gut punch for the development team. But Farley's criticism also sparked what the vehicle would eventually become. He wanted it to be inspiring and performance-oriented, not just another compliance car.
"Think Mustang," Farley told them.
Ford was scheduled to reveal on Sunday, Nov. 17, the byproduct of that advice: the 2021 Mustang Mach-E, a battery-electric crossover with a range of at least 300 miles.
It's the first utility vehicle to carry the iconic pony-car badge, and the nameplate is a play on the performance-oriented Mach 1 moniker. Castriota said it will be Ford's "best-handling vehicle" and boast driving specs comparable to those of a Porsche.
The Mach-E represents a full pivot in Ford's product strategy under a compressed time frame. The design team basically had to start from scratch, changing everything from the quality of the exterior mirrors to the size of the interior display screen.
"The day we decided this would be Mustang-inspired, we saw everyone light up," said Darren Palmer, Ford's global head of product development for BEVs. "It upped the ante hugely."
DETROIT — Two years ago, Jim Farley visited Ford Motor Co.'s Dearborn, Mich., design studio to review a long-range battery-electric crossover that had been in development for the past three years.
The new CEO, Jim Hackett, had just tapped Farley as president of global markets, a job that includes overseeing the company's electric vehicle plans. Ford was behind in the segment and sorely needed an EV that could compete with rivals such as General Motors and Tesla.
What he saw — essentially a wagon version of the Focus Electric — wasn't going to cut it.
"He took one look and said, 'No way, no how. You guys are rebooting this program,' " recalled Jason Castriota, brand director for Ford's battery EVs.
The quick rejection was a gut punch for the development team. But Farley's criticism also sparked what the vehicle would eventually become. He wanted it to be inspiring and performance-oriented, not just another compliance car.
"Think Mustang," Farley told them.
Ford was scheduled to reveal on Sunday, Nov. 17, the byproduct of that advice: the 2021 Mustang Mach-E, a battery-electric crossover with a range of at least 300 miles.
It's the first utility vehicle to carry the iconic pony-car badge, and the nameplate is a play on the performance-oriented Mach 1 moniker. Castriota said it will be Ford's "best-handling vehicle" and boast driving specs comparable to those of a Porsche.
The Mach-E represents a full pivot in Ford's product strategy under a compressed time frame. The design team basically had to start from scratch, changing everything from the quality of the exterior mirrors to the size of the interior display screen.
"The day we decided this would be Mustang-inspired, we saw everyone light up," said Darren Palmer, Ford's global head of product development for BEVs. "It upped the ante hugely."
Krugerrand
Meow
I believe with the latest 5% power increase, it’s now 4.9s.
You’ve made a point most are glossing over: Ford missed on every performance, efficiency, charging and cargo metric.
It’s yet to be determined if they hit handling and overall driving experience metrics.
No idea what level of vehicle system integration they have; you know between battery management, UI, firmware, braking, venting controls, wipers, media, etc... Ie., when braking distance needs to be improved do you have to take it in or will it actually be fixable while the vehicle sits in your garage? When there’s an AP/FSD issue do you have to take it...wait, can this thing park itself or even have the ability to learn to park itself down the road (in the future). Will it have the ability to have HW 2.5 swapped out for HW 3.0 at no cost to the consumer? Does the Mustang fart? Play games? Play Netflix? How often will it get free OTAs sitting in your garage so you can have the option of creep or no creep, of one pedal driving or two, of sentry mode or not...?
A lot of credit is being handed out here to Ford for copying Tesla and yet failing to even match Tesla. I guarantee the driving and living experience is going to fall short as well, but at least you’ll have an electric Mustang.
Ford bettered GM, Jaguar, Mercedes and the like (on paper) by copying Tesla, but they fell way short of that which they copied. That’s a fact.
I’ll be interested in real world numbers, including safety metrics and units produced and sold over a 2-3 year period. I predict a bunch of you will be back pedaling your praise at that time.
Edit: Their AP will be based on 3-D mapping of ‘certain’ highways. Another miss.
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