Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[EVNow]

Last night I had a drive in pouring rain - quite different from the "drizzle" we normally get here.

For the first time - FSD just couldn't handle the drive. It kept getting confused about lanes, kept giving warning about poor weather conditions ... and I finally gave up and drove on my own. First time this has happened to me in over 2 years - I've always been able to use AP even in pouring rain at night.

This morning - again in heavy rain - the car gave waring of "Full Self Driving may be degraded" and actually turned into AP ! It stopped at the stop sign and wouldn't go until I pressed the accelerator. Till now I have been getting these weather warnings, but FSD has never "degraded" to AP.

 

[Oil Freedom]

One thought about jittery turns. Subjectively, it feels like when I give the accelerator a push during hesitant, jittery turns, it seems to do better. Hard to know for certain what would have happened had I not pressed the accelerator, given a particular turn might cause different behaviors for each attempt. But in general, I feel like FSD is pretty smooth when I just command the amount of acceleration that goes into the turn.

So if you assume that to be true, what is happening here? Is it similar to the phenomenon that GPS is more accurate when you're in motion than standing still? Does vision have a harder time with perception when the car is moving very slowly? Does accelerating then give more confidence to object and distance detections?

Or, is it because a steering wheel "correction" is magnified at slower speeds than higher ones? For example, in regular AP, you may not notice any centering adjustments when at speed. but when you're bumper to bumper and almost at a stop, the ping-ponging becomes a lot more obvious.

Would be funny if the jittery turn issue can be solved simply by increased confidence in the car to move faster thru the turn....

I think the steering wheel jitter = FSD Beta's constant situational evaluation, planning, and reaction / the vehicle's speed. The slower the speed, the greater the steering input. This is because to effect the same change at low speeds requires greater steering input than at a higher speed.

So, it seems to be an artifact of this function. However, Tesla needs to reign this in! Sometimes it's so bad that I have to be really careful not to accidentally disengage because my hand is holding on to a randomly jerking steering wheel.

 

[Oil Freedom]

Maybe live, certainly not dead. I’ve had FSD Beta go straight over a squirrel, skunk, and dear carcas. Well, up to JUST before when I moved the wheel ever so slightly. the FSD Beta really doesn’t do much to avoid things in the road, and don’t get me started about wheel killing potholes that have been around forever and look Like a tire lying in the road.

I'm sure it needs much improvement for detection, but my car has gracefully gone around road debris (not any road kill -- don't see much of that).

Pothole avoidance would be very welcome! That's supposed to be coming. Seems like it would be possible to train the system since the cars have accelerometers which could be used to detect the jarring movement when a tire rolls into the hole. The fleet could be told to collect road images / video whenever cars drive through potholes to train the system what potholes look like. Then, feed those video clips into the training system. Tesla already instructs the fleet to collect and send in samples of all kinds of other things for training purposes, etc.

 

[tivoboy]

I'm sure it needs much improvement for detection, but my car has gracefully gone around road debris (not any road kill -- don't see much of that).

Pothole avoidance would be very welcome! That's supposed to be coming. Seems like it would be possible to train the system since the cars have accelerometers which could be used to detect the jarring movement when a tire rolls into the hole. The fleet could be told to collect road images / video whenever cars drive through potholes to train the system what potholes look like. Then, feed those video clips into the training system. Tesla already instructs the fleet to collect and send in samples of all kinds of other things for training purposes, etc.

A third party developed this for Mercedes about five years ago and they started rolling it out about 2 years ago in the E class and S Class. In some of the cars equipped with the magnetic suspension, it will even adjust the suspension fall and uptake in order to allow the car to go over/through the pothole without causing much if any jarring or damage.

Mercedes Launches Pothole, Speed Bump Detection on Select Models

Potholes kill drivers. Mercedes-Benz offers new technology to combat the problem of potholes.

www.automotive-fleet.com

For Tesla, I would love to just be able to Crowd source where the potholes are (sort of like Waze and police, or accidents or road kill or something in the road) so a driver could be alerted just before coming up on that issue and make small adjustments. Best thing would be to have the VISION capability of the car SEE the issue, let someone somewhere in India TAG it, have it’s geo location sent out to all cars in the area (so not the entire fleet) and then just let the driver know when they are coming up on it, or better yet, let FSD know about it and just either put the car in a different lane, or put the car slightly closer to the left of right lane marking to avoid it. This isn’t really that hard.

 

[nvx1977]

For Tesla, I would love to just be able to Crowd source where the potholes are (sort of like Waze and police, or accidents or road kill or something in the road) so a driver could be alerted just before coming up on that issue and make small adjustments. Best thing would be to have the VISION capability of the car SEE the issue, let someone somewhere in India TAG it, have it’s geo location sent out to all cars in the area (so not the entire fleet) and then just let the driver know when they are coming up on it, or better yet, let FSD know about it and just either put the car in a different lane, or put the car slightly closer to the left of right lane marking to avoid it. This isn’t really that hard.

You should totally submit that as a feature request. I haven't used waze ever since I ditched my ICEV, but I do recall liking that aspect of the app (crowdsourced roadkill, pothole, speed trap, etc).

I also loved guessing which lane the roadkill was in

 

[tivoboy]

You should totally submit that as a feature request. I haven't used waze ever since I ditched my ICEV, but I do recall liking that aspect of the app (crowdsourced roadkill, pothole, speed trap, etc).

I also loved guessing which lane the roadkill was in

The nice thing about having A full video VISION system and supercomputer onboard is that it should be /could be capturing this stuff in real time and sending it around to the local fleet in real time to help avoid these things. Heck, they could even CHARGE A PREMIUM for it.

 

[wtwieder]

Your two statement seem to contradict one another though.

The beta is far from perfect, I haven't seen a single person here who has said it was. Discussion of its issues and shortcomings litter this forum and its good dialog. Statements of fatal errors, trying to kill me, etc. are written to either elicit a response or to garner more attention to one's post. In that area you have succeeded.

I stand by both of those statements. They don't conflict with one another, at all. I think we all want to see significant improvement with FSD. If we don't discuss FSDs serious shortcomings and they don't get fixed, there is good chance somebody is going to get hurt or killed.
Just look at that case just reported to the NHSC, where somebody using FSD didn't intervene appropriately and put himself and his passengers in great jeopardy. Fortunately, there were no injuries except to the car.

Furthermore, I am not here for attention any more than you are. I am 78 years old and have been a practicing physician (now part-time) for nearly 50 years. I am too busy giving other people attention, that I don't certainly don't need yours. My life has been spent trying to save and increase the quality of life for my patients. Perhaps, that's why I am so frustrated that FSD is still making many of the same serious, potentially fatal mistakes that it made when it was introduced a year ago. Yet, I am far from giving up on this, because down the road, when I am too.old to drive, I am hoping FSD will be ready to safely drive for me.


I

 

[xxMxx]

After weeks of testing, I'm starting to figure out the scenarios in my daily routes, where FSD Beta is the most ideal (for me) and I'll usually activate FSD Beta in those scenarios where it's set up for success (along my daily route) ... been low stress and enjoyable for me that way

In the scenarios others have described already in this thread where FSD Beta tends to fail, I'll disengage and just drive on my own

Been able to enjoy 10.4 the most that way...looking forward to what the next updates bring

 

[Koolio46]

Last night I had a drive in pouring rain - quite different from the "drizzle" we normally get here.

For the first time - FSD just couldn't handle the drive. It kept getting confused about lanes, kept giving warning about poor weather conditions ... and I finally gave up and drove on my own. First time this has happened to me in over 2 years - I've always been able to use AP even in pouring rain at night.

This morning - again in heavy rain - the car gave waring of "Full Self Driving may be degraded" and actually turned into AP ! It stopped at the stop sign and wouldn't go until I pressed the accelerator. Till now I have been getting these weather warnings, but FSD has never "degraded" to AP.

Just had this happen to me this morning; driving in the city to the gym in medium level rain and it eventually kicked out of FSD to AP.

On a separate note, I've been able to put some more miles on 10.4 and some routes it's pretty darn good, while others (like this morning) was kind of a sh*tshow.

Pros of 10.4 vs 10.3.1:

• Feels a bit more confident taking (certain) turns.
• Chooses the correct lane when coming to a traffic light or stop sign. With 10.3.1, at certain lights, it would just camp out in the middle of the lane (no lane markings) instead of choosing the right lane if I'm taking a right turn.
• Stopping is no longer abrupt (this was SUPER annoying with 10.3.1). When the car is about to come to a stop, I can feel it letting go of the brake so it stops smoothly.
• Mini phantom braking seems to be less (but I haven't driven on same roads as when I was getting a ton of them on 10.3.1)
• I play tennis a couple of times a week and drive the same route (25 miles RT). I'm getting 2 disengagements per leg (4 in total for a RT drive), which I think is pretty good.

Cons (there are quite a few but the main ones that stick out in my mind are below)

• Rotary: driving home from playing tennis the other night, it was 50% merged into the rotary and it just stopped. No one else around so I let it sit there to see what it'd do and it just sat there for 2-3 secs, then I just used the accelerator.
• This morning's drive on a straight city road was a sh*tshow. It slammed the brakes and came to a complete stop bc it thought a car turning onto the road but going opposite direction of my was coming into my lane. Small phantom braking. But this all could've been because it was raining.
• Lastly, for the life of me, I don't understand why FSD doesn't take cues from the cars it's following. If I'm turning right and the car in front of me is doing the same, you'd think FSD would do the same bc 'oh, the car I'm following is doing the same thing I want to do', but nope!
• I sometimes question if Tesla Vision / FSD is truly interpreting what it sees b/c it makes decisions as if it doesn't recognize the object or situation at all. Now, this only occurs a minority of times but when it does I'm like, "WTF, doesn't it see that?!"

That said, I'm still happy with FSD and helping Tesla train it in my area. Looking forward to seeing the constant improvements.

 

[nvx1977]

Lots of rain here in the Boston area today. I had my windshield replaced yesterday. On the old windshield, I had some ceramic coating done on it (not something I asked for but was thrown in). It wreaked havoc on the auto wiper functionality. Basically it would always run at max speed regardless of the rain severity. With the new windshield, auto wipers work much better.

If you do use any sort of hydrophobic treatment on the windshield, best to avoid the glass where the cameras are. I have to imagine it would impact FSD behavior to some extent as well.

 

[Phlier]

My car sounded the FCW and hit the brakes for one of the fattest raccoons I’ve ever seen (apparently there is good eating for raccoons in my suburb, or maybe it was pregnant and I am fat shaming some poor expectant mother). It did so a little unnecessarily since at the pace the obese raccoon was trotting along and the speed of my car the raccoon would have been comfortably out of the driving path by the time the car reached the raccoon, but it still did it. I didn’t notice the display showing anything to represent the raccoon, but I was watching the road, not the screen.

As long as you didn't ask her when she was due, I think you're good.

I've definitely seen the UI display dogs both with and without human companions, although I haven't been in a situation where it actually needed to apply the brakes to avoid hitting one.

 

[impastu]

A third party developed this for Mercedes about five years ago and they started rolling it out about 2 years ago in the E class and S Class. In some of the cars equipped with the magnetic suspension, it will even adjust the suspension fall and uptake in order to allow the car to go over/through the pothole without causing much if any jarring or damage.

Mercedes Launches Pothole, Speed Bump Detection on Select Models

Potholes kill drivers. Mercedes-Benz offers new technology to combat the problem of potholes.

www.automotive-fleet.com

For Tesla, I would love to just be able to Crowd source where the potholes are (sort of like Waze and police, or accidents or road kill or something in the road) so a driver could be alerted just before coming up on that issue and make small adjustments. Best thing would be to have the VISION capability of the car SEE the issue, let someone somewhere in India TAG it, have it’s geo location sent out to all cars in the area (so not the entire fleet) and then just let the driver know when they are coming up on it, or better yet, let FSD know about it and just either put the car in a different lane, or put the car slightly closer to the left of right lane marking to avoid it. This isn’t really that hard.

at a minimum the real time suspension sensing could report anomalies from the fleet - crowd source - to FSD HQ and combined with vision records navigate around or adjust suspension and speed automatically...possible but I'm sure down the road from a development perspective.

 

[Fernand]

To the people who keep harping on how Tesla is not "level 5" and they can't sleep or play with their gizmos while the car drives I truly wonder why on earth they would want to do that. The number of accidents with humans at the wheel, and doing the unexpected all over, indicates this is never a safe situation. Never. Is that the Gold Standard? And no system can be 100% foolproof. Ever. Your vigilance might improve the odds. At what point do you develop an urge to abandon all control? Or is this just theoretical complaining?

But if you truly need to sleep either
1) Call Uber or a cab, and vet your driver, or
2) Stay home

 

[jebinc]

Last night I had a drive in pouring rain - quite different from the "drizzle" we normally get here.

For the first time - FSD just couldn't handle the drive. It kept getting confused about lanes, kept giving warning about poor weather conditions ... and I finally gave up and drove on my own. First time this has happened to me in over 2 years - I've always been able to use AP even in pouring rain at night.

This morning - again in heavy rain - the car gave waring of "Full Self Driving may be degraded" and actually turned into AP ! It stopped at the stop sign and wouldn't go until I pressed the accelerator. Till now I have been getting these weather warnings, but FSD has never "degraded" to AP.

Still haven't tested 10.4, as I've been away, and my bastard Plaid was in the shop getting half shafts replaced.

#247

Hope to test that round-about sometime tomorrow, however. @EVNow

 

[Daniel in SD]

To the people who keep harping on how Tesla is not "level 5" and they can't sleep or play with their gizmos while the car drives I truly wonder why on earth they would want to do that. The number of accidents with humans at the wheel, and doing the unexpected all over, indicates this is never a safe situation. Never. Is that the Gold Standard? And no system can be 100% foolproof. Ever. Your vigilance might improve the odds. At what point do you develop an urge to abandon all control? Or is this just theoretical complaining?

But if you truly need to sleep either
1) Call Uber or a cab, and vet your driver, or
2) Stay home

Elon says that once the system is super human your vigilance will actually make you less safe.

 

[Nakk]

Last night I had a drive in pouring rain - quite different from the "drizzle" we normally get here.

For the first time - FSD just couldn't handle the drive. It kept getting confused about lanes, kept giving warning about poor weather conditions ... and I finally gave up and drove on my own. First time this has happened to me in over 2 years - I've always been able to use AP even in pouring rain at night.

This morning - again in heavy rain - the car gave waring of "Full Self Driving may be degraded" and actually turned into AP ! It stopped at the stop sign and wouldn't go until I pressed the accelerator. Till now I have been getting these weather warnings, but FSD has never "degraded" to AP.

I wonder if 10.4 isn't being more cautious with rain? I too had Beta go unavailable due to weather yesterday, whereas in similar rain last week I had no issue.

 

[nvx1977]

Ok I'm confused. I've been reporting a poor experience with 10.4. Just now I had to go out for a 15mi drive. It's already dark out due to recent switch to Standard time. The roads are wet from al the rain we got today. There was fog. Tons of oak leaves all over the place. Just overall crappy visibility conditions. FSD was throwing warnings about occluded cameras and such.

And yet, this was my best drive yet. WTF. The car stayed to the right on the unmarked roads in my neighborhood. Interestingly, it visualized a double yellow line constantly (with lots of flicker). On 2 lane roads, it stayed centered in the lane. My last attempt in rain (but daytime) had the car crossing the double yellow frequently. Auto wipers worked perfectly (recent windshield replacement eliminated problems due to ceramic coating). No phantom braking at all. It did miss a left turn (signaled but never slowed, and I didn't want to slam on the brake because someone was right behind me). I was extremely vigilant, given I could barely see the lane markings, but this was the most comfortable I felt with FSD since upgrading to 10.4.

 

[Oil Freedom]

Lastly, for the life of me, I don't understand why FSD doesn't take cues from the cars it's following. If I'm turning right and the car in front of me is doing the same, you'd think FSD would do the same bc 'oh, the car I'm following is doing the same thing I want to do', but nope!

Maybe this provides some assurance that your car won't blindly follow another car off a cliff!

 

[EVNow]

I wonder if 10.4 isn't being more cautious with rain? I too had Beta go unavailable due to weather yesterday, whereas in similar rain last week I had no issue.

Could be because we have unusually heavy rains in WA now ...

 

[EVNow]

To the people who keep harping on how Tesla is not "level 5" and they can't sleep or play with their gizmos while the car drives I truly wonder why on earth they would want to do that.

Its an idea based on today's (or more appropriately pre-Covid) commuting needs. Commuting is a soul-wrenching exercise - and it would indeed be great if you can do something else in that time. But sleeping is difficult in a moving car - it can even be nauseating. It is also difficult to read. But if you are sleep deprived - yes, it would be nice.

Anyway, it is likely we won't have to commute much by the time we have commute safe FSD.