FOOLSLFDRVNG
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Could be hiding curbs making the road much more narrow.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
Ooooowwwwww! The other area where FSD fails MISERABLY is those city streets where they are technically 4 lanes roads with a single center stripe, and that’s it. This is built to spill. FSD wants to stay smack dab in the middle of road, and let’s no one on either side of you. It wants to be in the middle of the lane it’s in to make a turn. This is not how it works on roads like this. I have two roads I travel on a weekly basis like this, unless there are no other vehicles around me, I will not use FSD on these said roads.
It slowed down, then proceeded to drive through half the pile of leaves.
Really
you should be careful for the near future. It’s stuff like this that gets people kicked off of Beta, I think. Let us know if you get a warning email.
Will it will learn after you drive it several times?
Individual cars don't learn so every time your car comes to the same road it is the "first time" FSD has ever seen it and it "REfigures" out what to do a new, every single time.
Only the Neural Net learns.
I am not whining about it. I am sorry you see it that way. I want FSD to improve as much as anyone, here. who paid for a finished product. But none of us are going to see a finish product unless we go through this difficult beta testing process. I am just pointing out FSD has serious issues that nobody can deny exist. If you do deny that, FSD will continue to be dangerous. If you have never intervened in what could have been a fatal situation, that's great for you, especially if you are enjoying FSD. But for the others who have issues, don't tell them to give up and turn FSD off. If we turn it off, there is absolutely no chance FSD is going to get any better.
It's not fun being a test pilot. If you are having fun, chances are, you won't be vigilant enough to avoid getting killed. I pray for anyone here who is having fun with FSD the way it stands right now. I am not, yet I will continue to use it, but use it very cautiously. That's totally my choice, thank you
you do realize it's statements like this that's getting you so much pushback. It's fine to relay your own personal experiences with FSD, but stop projecting how others are experiencing FSD. Many people are having better experiences than what you report. I have yet to see anyone on these forums taking a cavalier stance toward FSD safety. Likewise, having fun with testing FSD beta is not mutually exclusive with being vigilant and safe.
I am NOT projecting how you or anyone else is experiencing FSD. I know you are finding it safer than I do. I have never questiioned your more positive experience, but don't belittle us who don't share your positive experiences or advise them what they should do, like turning FSD off and stop whining. When you do, you are projecting your opinion in order to turn these people off along with FSD, mainly because you don't want to hear a viewpoint contrary to yours.
BTW, don't misinterpret what you think I said. I never said beta testing and having fun were mutually exclusive. I may have implied that perhaps they are, but I said "chances are". So perhaps some people can beta test and have fun at the same time. But they could be in the minority. Case on point, there was a driver who just reported to the NHSC that he had serious damage done to his M3 when FSD took over. He was showing off FSD making a left turn to other passengers when this happened. (Frankly, I doubt FSD took over. Rather, I think he didn't appropriately take over. He mashed down on the brake pedal and the car accelerated? It sounds like he hit the accelerator.) Was he having fun showing off his new toy and not being vigilant enough to intervene when he should have? It would seem that way to me. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
BTW, don't misinterpret what you think I said. I never said beta testing and having fun were mutually exclusive. I may have implied that perhaps they are, but I said "chances are". So perhaps some people can beta test and have fun at the same time. But they could be in the minority. Case on point, there was a driver who just reported to the NHSC that he had serious damage done to his M3 when FSD took over. He was showing off FSD making a left turn to other passengers when this happened. (Frankly, I doubt FSD took over. Rather, I think he didn't appropriately take over. He mashed down on the brake pedal and the car accelerated? It sounds like he hit the accelerator.) Was he having fun showing off his new toy and not being vigilant enough to intervene when he should have? It would seem that way to me. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
actually my experience with 10.4 has been piss poor, to the point I took a few days off testing and just drove normally. Again your assumptions about others are off-base, which is why you're getting pushback. I think there are a few twitter accounts that are shilling hard that FSD beta is super amazing, zero interventions etc. That's where you should direct your caution to. They are the ones distorting reality that could cause people to think FSD is more capable than it is. Ok I'm done here.
So... after taking a couple days off testing, last few days I was able to test enough to draw some general conclusions about 10.4:
- it seems to have a really hard time routing into dedicated turning lanes. This applies to both left and right turns where if the planner is showing a turn, the car stays in the middle lane instead of moving into a dedicated left or right lane. This is despite those dedicated lanes clearly marked with painted arrows.
- steering wheel jitters are quite extreme for some pretty innocent turns. Interestingly, the teal route line is very stable throughout the jittery turn. It's not as if the planner is picking wild deviations while executing the turn.
- random turn signals in places where you wouldn't expect it (no side road, no adjacent lane).
- no improvement to stopping early and taking forever to creep for visibility. If there's a car behind me, I just use the accelerator and push thru the turn. It actually does well when I give it a push. Makes you wonder why it's hesitating so much. As much as I want to blame b-pillar visibility, the car sometimes attempts the turn when it's positioned well for visibility and a car is coming. Dirty Tesla demonstrated this in his latest video with a horrendous unprotected left attempt:
- no improvement to driving toward the center of unmarked residential roads
- no improvement to light phantom braking on 2-lane roads
- no improvement for car trying to pass while waiting in line at a red light. I think Tesla should really think about what is safe behavior in general. Every lane change increases risk of collision compared to staying in your lane. IMO, assertive driving is not about changing lanes more frequently; it's about being more daring when you do want to switch lanes. Mad Max mode was a completely useless setting because all it did was increase frequency of lane changes while being extremely timid doing so.
I'm trying to think where 10.4 is doing better than 10.3 but I'm not seeing anything. I know speed bumps are part of this release but I haven't encountered one in my driving to draw a conclusion.
- it seems to have a really hard time routing into dedicated turning lanes. This applies to both left and right turns where if the planner is showing a turn, the car stays in the middle lane instead of moving into a dedicated left or right lane. This is despite those dedicated lanes clearly marked with painted arrows.
- steering wheel jitters are quite extreme for some pretty innocent turns. Interestingly, the teal route line is very stable throughout the jittery turn. It's not as if the planner is picking wild deviations while executing the turn.
- random turn signals in places where you wouldn't expect it (no side road, no adjacent lane).
- no improvement to stopping early and taking forever to creep for visibility. If there's a car behind me, I just use the accelerator and push thru the turn. It actually does well when I give it a push. Makes you wonder why it's hesitating so much. As much as I want to blame b-pillar visibility, the car sometimes attempts the turn when it's positioned well for visibility and a car is coming. Dirty Tesla demonstrated this in his latest video with a horrendous unprotected left attempt:
- no improvement to driving toward the center of unmarked residential roads
- no improvement to light phantom braking on 2-lane roads
- no improvement for car trying to pass while waiting in line at a red light. I think Tesla should really think about what is safe behavior in general. Every lane change increases risk of collision compared to staying in your lane. IMO, assertive driving is not about changing lanes more frequently; it's about being more daring when you do want to switch lanes. Mad Max mode was a completely useless setting because all it did was increase frequency of lane changes while being extremely timid doing so.
I'm trying to think where 10.4 is doing better than 10.3 but I'm not seeing anything. I know speed bumps are part of this release but I haven't encountered one in my driving to draw a conclusion.
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Please let me know where I made ANY assumption about anyone else in any of my posts. I dont think I said or even implied that their experience was atypical. My only assumption was this forum is open to free expression of our differing perspectives. Obviously, that's not true when it comes to a few people here. I was just stating my experience, which you seem to share with me.
The only reason I can imagine for some people advising me to turn off FSD and quit posting is they can't tolerate hearing an opinion that seems to be contrary to their own.
No...it's the excessive negativity that people dislike. Realistic, objective criticism of Tesla is a constant in this community. But it's generally constructive criticism and often with some cynicism. But if a community member's prognosis is that the patient is terminal, most other community members would prefer that they pull the eject plug. Sorry to mix metaphors.
One thought about jittery turns. Subjectively, it feels like when I give the accelerator a push during hesitant, jittery turns, it seems to do better. Hard to know for certain what would have happened had I not pressed the accelerator, given a particular turn might cause different behaviors for each attempt. But in general, I feel like FSD is pretty smooth when I just command the amount of acceleration that goes into the turn.
So if you assume that to be true, what is happening here? Is it similar to the phenomenon that GPS is more accurate when you're in motion than standing still? Does vision have a harder time with perception when the car is moving very slowly? Does accelerating then give more confidence to object and distance detections?
Or, is it because a steering wheel "correction" is magnified at slower speeds than higher ones? For example, in regular AP, you may not notice any centering adjustments when at speed. but when you're bumper to bumper and almost at a stop, the ping-ponging becomes a lot more obvious.
Would be funny if the jittery turn issue can be solved simply by increased confidence in the car to move faster thru the turn....
So if you assume that to be true, what is happening here? Is it similar to the phenomenon that GPS is more accurate when you're in motion than standing still? Does vision have a harder time with perception when the car is moving very slowly? Does accelerating then give more confidence to object and distance detections?
Or, is it because a steering wheel "correction" is magnified at slower speeds than higher ones? For example, in regular AP, you may not notice any centering adjustments when at speed. but when you're bumper to bumper and almost at a stop, the ping-ponging becomes a lot more obvious.
Would be funny if the jittery turn issue can be solved simply by increased confidence in the car to move faster thru the turn....
Perhaps, I have been too negative. I will accept that valiid criticism. But as a physician, myself, I never say give up. I always hold out for hope, no matter how slim hope may be. Miracles do happen. That's why I won't pull the plug on FSD, inspite of my negattive prognosis, (better kept to myself) based on the questionable, inconsistant improvements I have experienced, so far. Perhaps Dojo will be the miracle cure At least, I hope so.
Well said. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that there will be no miracles here...but I'll be incredibly disappointed and surprised if we don't see continuous improvement. It won't be at the pace that most or even many of us expect or want, but I'm confident of continuous improvement.
Your two statement seem to contradict one another though.
The beta is far from perfect, I haven't seen a single person here who has said it was. Discussion of its issues and shortcomings litter this forum and its good dialog. Statements of fatal errors, trying to kill me, etc. are written to either elicit a response or to garner more attention to one's post. In that area you have succeeded.
Maybe live, certainly not dead. I’ve had FSD Beta go straight over a squirrel, skunk, and dear carcas. Well, up to JUST before when I moved the wheel ever so slightly. the FSD Beta really doesn’t do much to avoid things in the road, and don’t get me started about wheel killing potholes that have been around forever and look Like a tire lying in the road.
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