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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
The off-ramp description happens in a divided freeway location. Though FSD beta is not in the visualizations, FSD beta gives additional allowances to difficult off and on ramps, which regular NoA would not be able to take due to the short merge. This in my mind is sort of a grey area. The visualization is standard NoA, but the FSD beta allows NoA to take these difficult off ramps.
The highway 17 does have cross traffic, so FSD Beta is in control. The speed issues only pop up when FSD Beta is engaged.
I've never seen a single instance of having a dotted line (passing allowed) on the outside with a solid line (passing prohibited) on the inside. It's always been the opposite.
Given something (hill, signs, houses, etc) ... generically it seems out the outside of a bend would have more visibility. Image below.
I think I had something similar happen with 10.3.1 (maybe 10.4) at night. I was going around a slight right and a car (headlights) was coming the opposite way over a small crest right in front of me. FSD swung right to seemingly try to avoid and then recovered. I didn't intervene.
Same problem here. FSDbeta's speed control is frustrating and I've been unable to make my setting stick and take priority. FSDbeta (and TACC after disengaging) always supersedes my speed settings.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I do not doubt what you say that this may occur in the NoA stack. I am just being clear that before I had FSD beta, the car would give a message "Unsupported exit"
After FSD beta, those unsupported exists are now supported, though the visualization is still NoA.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Interesting.
May be NOA turns over the control to AP on exists - and AP was not supporting the exit. But now that FSD has replaced AP, and it supports the exit, NOA is able to successfully handoff.
Unfortunately, FSD has been doing this to me since Beta 10.4.
It isn't because of the pylons in your example, unfortunately. It's because there is a flaw in the system somewhere.
The amount that the car swerves in the opposing direction of the turn varies. I've had it swing way over to the right shoulder before turning left.
Honestly, the amount of right swerve you had before the left turn is minimal compared to what the average is that I've experienced.
IMO, this is currently one of FSD's most dangerous behaviors, and it needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW.
But since we're left with zero beta tester resources as far as reporting serious bugs is concerned, all we can do is use the email address we (well, some of us) were given. Which I've done. Several times. Zero response.
The car doesn't *always* swerve in the opposing direction prior to making a turn, thankfully. But when it does it, it does it so fast that you'd be hard pressed to stop it from hitting a vehicle in the lane next to you. Would the other anti-collision features in the software prevent actual contact from being made? That's a question I'm not willing to get an answer to.
For now, I'm keeping my hand locked to the wheel, and if it even budges in the opposite direction of the intended turn, I stop it instantly.
In a properly executed beta program, an announcement in the "known bugs" section of the weekly beta newsletter would spell this sort of stuff out so that everyone was aware of it.
I'm shocked that Tesla doesn't have some sort of "known issues" information distribution for this beta, as we are dealing with software that has the potential of actually killing people.
I just can't grock how Elon et al think that it's OK for such a dangerous bug to even exist in the first place, let alone not inform everyone that has the software installed of its existence.
Tesla has shown that they are interested in the CYA aspect, as shown by the requirement to get a certain Safety Score prior to be given access to the software.
However, their lack of implementing a proper testing environment might very well come back to bite them. Hard.
Let's say that your car HAD hit that firetruck. IMO, it would have done so faster than what your mere human reflexes could have prevented.
Court day...
"Mr. generalmilk, were you aware of a bug in the FSD Beta that would cause your car to swerve in the opposite direction of an intended turn?"
Mr. generalmilk: "No. I was not aware of this."
"Mr. Musk, was Tesla aware of this bug?"
No matter how he answers this, he's screwed. Yes, we were aware of it... then why didn't you inform your testers of its presence? No, we weren't aware of it. Really, why? Your testers had been discussing it on various online forums for weeks.
And you can see how it would pan out from there...
Tesla's catch-all phrasing of "pay attention..... FSD Beta might do the wrong thing at the worst possible time" doesn't fit all possible scenarios, as FSD Beta is capable of putting you into a dangerous situation faster than your human reflexes can fix it.
Yeah, I'm still pro-Elon and pro-Tesla. But I'm no fan of how they're running this beta program. It's incompetent at best, and dangerous at worst.
Let the down votes roll in.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
+1
But I wonder whether the planner would do this if the car was actually going to hit the truck. Basically - why is the planner doing this .... it can't figure out that it may hit the truck on the side or it thinks the chance of hitting the truck are low compared to hitting the curb, so moves to the right a bit ?
Either way - they need to increase the cost of moving to the right so that the car takes a less comfortable but tighter turn that will not cross the line nor hit the curb.
I experienced the same improvement that @Vines reported. Only when I got FSD did I stop getting the "unsupported exit in X feet" message at certain exits. I've also seen an improvement (reduction) in the ramp exit speed even though the visualization is still highway.
It's quite possible that FSD Beta turned off a configuration along the lines of "show NoA warnings" as a good chunk of those were related to "unsupported exits" and clearly FSD Beta will take over for the offramp so the message wouldn't make sense. I've also noticed the lack of "unsupported maneuver" warning that used to show up for a very short highway weave (on-ramp followed by a very close off-ramp), and NoA will happily attempt to make the lane change without switching to FSD Beta visualization. Maybe behind the scenes it's actually FSD Beta controlling, but that's hard to prove, and soon theoretically with 11/single-stack, it'll be fully handled by FSD Beta anyway.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
My guess is the planners will remain different. Its the perception that gets merged first. Ofcourse in the long run we'll get a different planner that handles both.
Gpkarma
Member
I have had this happen to me many times in my regular routes pretty predictably
With 10.5 NoA also works in tunnels here (haven't tested on previous versions but I don't think it's new). Even performs unconfirmed lane changes mid-tunnel.
powertoold
Active Member
My annoyance with 10.6 is that it usually stops uncomfortably behind cars. The braking gradient isn't ideal. When there are no cars, it's superior to 10.5. when cars, about the same.
I don't fully agree with this sentiment. This might be true to someone fairly new to FSD, and they are not aware of the amount of focus and attention needed in some situations. We've seen hyperbolic YT titles like "FSD tried to kill me," and typically, the video is showing some crazy swerving. However I've not seen a situation where braking, or even gripping the wheel to prevent the swerve wouldn't have prevented a serious safety issue. Further, a more experienced FSD user will know what kinds of situations are more prone to crazy actions. This was also the same for Autopilot back in the day.
FSD tends to do the worst things at slower speeds. From a safety perspective, this is a good thing. It means that in the unlikely event of a collision, injury and loss of life is much less likely. And I have yet to see any video evidence of a car putting a VRU in danger with the driver actively attempting to override the car.
For the situation you described: car going opposite direction before making a turn: this has happened to me countless times, and the instant i feel the steering wheel going the wrong direction, I grip it and disengage. I don't let the car leave my lane. Agreed this is annoying and potentially dangerous if left unchecked. It's actually a long time pet peeve of mine when other drivers take a wide turn away before turning.
If the tunnel is easy for you to access (none around here), a quick test is to turn off the FSD Beta toggle. At least for the short highway weave here, the warning comes back with FSD Beta 10.5 firmware but FSD Beta toggle off.
CharleyBC
Active Member
I got my first chance to try FSD 10.6 today, even though we've had the software a while. (House rule here is I only engage when I'm solo.) Three interesting experiences.
- The first is a visualization oddity. The visualization window didn't use the whole vertical space available, leaving a broad grey band at the bottom. This persisted to my destination. I put it in Park and back in gear--no change. I rebooted and went in the store. When I came back out from this quick stop, the reboot was done, and the visualization problem was still there. Very short drive to the next store, and a longer time shopping. When I came back out, with no further reboot, the display was back to normal. Anyone else seen this?
- We came to a stop at an intersection where we would turn right. The light was red, and we were the front car. I wasn't sure whether it would try a right-on-red, so I waited to see. It was nice and clear, but no movement. I figured, "no sweat--they haven't programmed that yet." Then the opposing traffic got a green left arrow, and so two lanes of left turning cars began to head right in front of us. As the first one went by, FSD tried to go. Yikes! That would have been a collision.
- A bit later we were on a freeway onramp. When we got down to where we could merge, FSD did this head-snapping slalom S maneuver to get from the merge lane to the first traffic lane. I haven't seen that before. It was such a stark contrast to how smooth a normal freeway lane change is. And there was nothing unusual that required the radical lane change. It had plenty of space to do it gently. I bet it freaked out nearby drivers.
colettimj
Member
Re: #3. I had something similar to that happen on 10.5 while driving on a local road. Car just snapped from my lane to the lane to the left. I had no idea why that happened. I went back later to look at the in-car video (I have a GoPro mounted inside) and I could see that the lane markings shown on the screen went totally bonkers.... the car swerved since it 'thought' it had to do that to stay in the lane.
I haven't done a lot of highway driving since I got FSD, but in my experience FSD has switched over to AP on on-ramps before the merge actually occurs. Were the FSD visualizations still up when the slalom occurred?
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