Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

[Ostrichsak]

Ugh. So disappointing to read the 1000th mention of a "reputable" electrician making the simplest and most blatant of code/safety violations by flippantly slapping a 60A breaker on a 50A outlet. Dude has *one* job.

@snikt It's slightly more efficient to charge a bit faster despite the extra heat loss because of all the computer/pump overhead.

It's crazy to me how people blow up over the Delta between a Leviton receptacle and a Bryant receptacle in application yet don't know the first thing about proper matching of circuit components and act like it's no big deal to throw any old breaker you have on the truck in place.

I'll take a Leviton properly installed 10 times out of 10 over a Bryant or Hubbell that hasn't been properly installed.

You are substantially more likely to have problems no matter how high end your receptacle is if it's not installed properly. People here would be surprised by what's considered a "proper" install by many if not most electricians.

 

[Zinzan]

Why would you turn your breaker off every time you're not using it? Breakers are not like light switches and were not engineered to survive the amount of cycles that a typical light switch is. Secondly, your electrician needs to use the proper breaker rated for that circuit.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that I will turn off the breaker whenever I'm not charging. I just meant to say that the breaker is off for now (since I don't have my vehicle yet), so no danger to me in checking that the wires are screwed into the outlet properly.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that I will turn off the breaker whenever I'm not charging. I just meant to say that the breaker is off for now (since I don't have my vehicle yet), so no danger to me in checking that the wires are screwed into the outlet properly.

If you are relying on the breaker being off for safety, it's best practice to tape it off also. There's been cases where others didn't know and flip it back on while it's still being worked on (for example some other breaker tripping and they just go and flip on any tripped breakers not knowing which was which).

 

[Zinzan]

If you are relying on the breaker being off for safety, it's best practice to tape it off also. There's been cases where others didn't know and flip it back on while it's still being worked on (for example some other breaker tripping and they just go and flip on any tripped breakers not knowing which was which).

Good point. My wife and kids don't go anywhere near the breaker panel in the basement, so I'm not too worried, but I'll make sure the panel is closed. And I have one of those voltage tester pens I'll use before touching anything in the outlet.

So... can anybody answer my newbie question about charging my M3 (SR+)? No need to set a charge current? Just let the car automatically set it "to the maximum available from the attached charge cable", and set the charging limit to 60% or whatever?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Good point. My wife and kids don't go anywhere near the breaker panel in the basement, so I'm not too worried, but I'll make sure the panel is closed. And I have one of those voltage tester pens I'll use before touching anything in the outlet.

So... can anybody answer my newbie question about charging my M3 (SR+)? No need to set a charge current? Just let the car automatically set it "to the maximum available from the attached charge cable", and set the charging limit to 60% or whatever?

There is no need to set a charge current, the mobile connector detects which adapter is connected and automatically sets the appropriate limit. You can however set it lower manually (as some people do when they know they have an undersized breaker or wiring at a particular outlet).

 

[snikt]

What does this symbol mean the electrician wrote next to the breaker?

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Those are the symbols the Illuminati uses to send secret messages to the Vatican. Obviously your electrician is a deep state operative so you should check that any neighborhood children are safe and also make sure any pizzas you might have in your freezer haven't been compromised. I'd put a piece of tape over it so the satellites can't see.

 

[Rocky_H]

What does this symbol mean the electrician wrote next to the breaker? View attachment 674050

Wow, that is one I have not seen before, and I had to use some Googling. I found what it means, but he used the wrong symbol. It's a notation that is used to denote switches or outlets and such in circuit diagrams. That symbol represents a duplex outlet, like the regular ones along the walls in your house, where it has two places to plug something in. That 14-50 one, though is a single receptacle outlet, so it is supposed to only have one line through it--not two. Here is a pdf showing the markings, and on page 4, you will see these symbols.

http://mfranzen.ca/docs/const/gen/bp_res-u2-elect-symbols-outlets-note.pdf

 

[snikt]

Those are the symbols the Illuminati uses to send secret messages to the Vatican. Obviously your electrician is a deep state operative so you should check that any neighborhood children are safe and also make sure any pizzas you might have in your freezer haven't been compromised. I'd put a piece of tape over it so the satellites can't see.

I already have tin foil wrapped around everything so I'm good!

 

[Dave EV]

It was put in by a local electrician that specializes mostly in residential and commercial EV charging setups. On the Tesla certified list too

I could always charge at 24 amps, probably 98% of the time I don't need the faster charging

Is it "better" for heat to charge at 32 amps for shorter time or 24 amps for longer time?

Heat buildup wise in the wiring, it's better to reduce the current. The power dissipated by a resistive load (your wiring, for example) is determined by the formula P = R * I^2

So it's an exponential formula. If you have 0.1 Ohms of resistance, at 32 A you'll dissipate 100W of power in the wires. Drop it 10A to 22A and you'll dissipate 50W of power in the wires. A 45% increase in current results in a 100% increase in heating of your wires.

I personally find the wires in the Mobile Connector a bit thin - I personally opted to charge at 24-28A for daily use when I was using it unless I needed fastest charging speeds. Even the wires in the V2 HPWC rated for 80A start get a bit warm at 40A.

All that said, I personally wouldn't worry about the Leviton outlet if it's already there. Just periodically check to see how warm the outlet/box are after an hour or two of charging and make sure it's not hot - warm is normal.

 

[Feathermerchan]

For a data point, With out Model Y and 3 we have the charge current turned down to 20A because we have found that we don't need to charge any faster than that.
We normally charge to 80%.

 

[techlogik]

Those are the symbols the Illuminati uses to send secret messages to the Vatican. Obviously your electrician is a deep state operative so you should check that any neighborhood children are safe and also make sure any pizzas you might have in your freezer haven't been compromised. I'd put a piece of tape over it so the satellites can't see.

Real helpful...

 

[Zinzan]

Real helpful...

LOL.

I think @Gauss Guzzler was just funnin'. Sure, you can call him (?) out on it, but in my recent searches on this forum, he's been one of the most helpful posters.

At least he didn't say Here you go.

 

[bobby g]

Those are the symbols the Illuminati uses to send secret messages to the Vatican. Obviously your electrician is a deep state operative so you should check that any neighborhood children are safe and also make sure any pizzas you might have in your freezer haven't been compromised. I'd put a piece of tape over it so the satellites can't see.

Aren't you at risk for revealing this info?

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Aren't you at risk for revealing this info?

Well I wasn't until you pointed it out. Thanks a lot.
Now I gotta find my old Matrix DVD and try to figure out which color pill to take. Ugh, I can never remember.

 

[Gulfcoaster]

Those are the symbols the Illuminati uses to send secret messages to the Vatican. Obviously your electrician is a deep state operative so you should check that any neighborhood children are safe and also make sure any pizzas you might have in your freezer haven't been compromised. I'd put a piece of tape over it so the satellites can't see.

LMAO

 

[Ninety0ne]

it means

What does this symbol mean the electrician wrote next to the breaker? View attachment 674050

it means receptacale, which is the sparky work for outlet, If i saw it in a panel id assume its a 220vac/50 amp breaker dedicated to an EV charging receptacle

 

[westie10019]

I have the cheapo Leviton with a 42cu in work box and it’s already pretty tight with 6awg wire. What volume work box is everyone using for the other, much deeper looking, outlets????

The code requires 5 cubic in for each #'6 wire in a box. No debate, no excuse code requires 5 cubic in per #6 wire!

 

[techlogik]

Electrician who owns a smaller family A/C and electrical company down the street came by installed a Legrand outlet. They’ve done like 200+ EV installs. Many people on our street. They claim nobody has 50a breakers at any of their suppliers. They have 50+ ordered and waiting on them. Meantime put a 45a breaker and said it will be fine. They said they have no choice, either that or 35a is all they have?!?! They have a bunch of customers with 45a. Anyway, if/when they get an actual 50a breaker will swap it.

Anyway box is right next to the breaker panel. Clean install $300. Charges fine. I turn it down to 26a anyway, don’t need 32mi an hour, 26mi/hr plenty fast.

$300 good neighbor install price…haha

 

[Ostrichsak]

Electrician who owns a company down the street small family owned company, came by installed a Legrand outlet. They’ve done like 200+ EV installs. Many on our street. They claim nobody has 50a breakers at any of their suppliers. They have 50+ ordered and waiting on them. Meantime put a 45a breaker and said it will be fine. They said they have no choice, either that or 35a is all they have?!?! They have a bunch of customers with 45a. Anyway, if/when they get an actual 50a breaker will swap it.

Anyway box is right next to the breaker panel. Clean install $300. Charges fine. I turn it down to 26a anyway, don’t need 32mi an hour, 26mi/hr plenty fast.

$300 good neighbor install price…haha

A 45A breaker is "fine" as a temporary solution only & so long as you manually turn the amperage down to 36A or less from within the car if you're running a Gen 1 UMC plugged into a car capable of drawing 40A continuously. My guess is that this guy has done "200+ EV installs" and the one time he checked everything was on a Model 3 that was only capable of drawing 32A from a Gen 2 UMC. The professional/right thing to do would be to install a 50A breaker to match the circuit/components/code.

I hope your neighbor fully understands the complexity of what he's talking about. If he's truly installing that many of them for EVs he needs to use the proper circuit breaker instead of telling people it'll be "fine" because it's definitely not up to code.

This type of "professional installation" is exactly how we end up with melted plugs & receptacles and people blaming inexpensive or faulty equipment. That would be a fun one to have come back on him when something happens.