Curious though as to why the electrician didn’t install a GFCI breaker with the outlet. He knew it was for an EV charger too.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide
- Thread starter gilscales
- Start date
That big section 625 was a ton of new stuff all about EVs that was added in that 2017 update, and we've seen a lot of electricians that just aren't aware of that new requirement. GFCI breakers were required for even more stuff in the 2020 version update, but a lot of states haven't converted to that one yet.Got it, that tells me the electrician I used 3 months ago to install the 14-50 outlet didn’t know what he was doing as he installed a non-GFCI 50a breaker, and he knew it was for an EV charger.
2017 NEC 625.54 requires GFCI for new outlets rated 150V or lower and 50A or less for EV charging: https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/Proposed_TIA_1242_NFPA_70.pdf
2020 NEC 625.54 requires GFCI for all (without limitation for voltage and current) new outlets for EV charging: https://www.nh.gov/safety/boardsand...documents/nec-20-summary-report-ch-1-to-8.pdf
States do vary on which version of the NEC they are on. Texas went to the 2020 NEC on November 1, 2020, according to https://www.iaei.org/page/texas-electrical-ceus .
With your existing 6awg romex or umb a 50A breaker is suitable for 40A charging, you’ll be fine.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Hardwire does not require GFCI. If you keep the 14-50, you need a GFCI 50A breaker to meet current code.
Hint: if you are looking for GFCI breakers, do not buy the bare breakers, buy a panel that has the breaker included. Some electrical supply stores have them in stock for much less than the bare breaker (online they are super expensive due to price gougers flipping them). I was able to find Eaton BR (with panel) at Platt in California for much less than anywhere selling the bare breaker. I think your equivalent in Texas is Rexel, but you can call around local electrical supply stores to ask for prices. I will PM you a link to a place also that has your option in stock that appears to be able to ship if you don't end up finding a local one in stock. Don't want to put it public, because I know there are scalpers looking.
So if I hardwire it using my existing wiring with the non-GFCI 50a circuit breaker, would I need to extend the wiring up in the wall so that my Tesla Wall Connector is higher up? My 14-50 outlet is about 3 feet off the ground in the wall in a plastic remodel box. I'm sure I can't just replace the outlet and have the TWC there since it's not on a stud there.
What wiring would I need to connect to the wire that my 14-50 outlet is using, and would it be just as easy as using wire nuts to connect it in the box and just placing a blank cover on it in place of the outlet?
What wiring would I need to connect to the wire that my 14-50 outlet is using, and would it be just as easy as using wire nuts to connect it in the box and just placing a blank cover on it in place of the outlet?
The 14-50r box isn’t on a stud?
If you can’t mount the TWC right there I would say mount it wherever you need it, and run 6awg in conduit from there to the J box, or go back to using more romex, whatever is appropriate for your situation- your electrician should be your 1st call
If you can’t mount the TWC right there I would say mount it wherever you need it, and run 6awg in conduit from there to the J box, or go back to using more romex, whatever is appropriate for your situation- your electrician should be your 1st call
Nope. It's to the left of a stud though, where the 3rd party EV charger was installed at about 6 feet in height. Would I need to have the 6/2 (I can get this for a few bucks cheaper) in a conduit in the wall? The 6/3 running to the outlet now is just in the drywall with no conduit, then going into the plastic remodel box via one of those tabs.
My thinking is I can uninstall the outlet, run the 6/2 to where I need it about 5-6 feet up from the ground (2-3 feet up from the existing outlet box), wire nut the neutral from the run coming from my breaker box. Wire nut the two hot and one ground with the 6/2 wiring, then put a plastic or metal blank on the remodel box, then connect the 6/2 to the TWC.
Is that to code at all? Knowing the city I live in, I may need to see if I can pull my own permit for this. I don't trust any electrician as I've had two come to my house and both have been unreliable.
As much as I'd love to covert this over to a 60a breaker hardwire. I just can't justify the cost to add only 8 more amps of charging.
Found this video:
I’m Not a licensed electrician but 6/2 would not need conduit or be allowed (in conduit), THHN is all you need if you go with conduit, and there is no neutral lug on the TWC. It seems like you could cap the N. in the box but I don’t know if that would satisfy code.
That’s really my only concern, can I tie a piece if 6/2 using wire nuts and capping off the neutral wire on the existing 6/3 in the existing plastic junction box and still meet code? Really appreciate all of your help!
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Yes you can splice Romex or THHN to your 6/3 and cap off the box but wire nuts aren’t really used anymore, and certainly not with 6AWG. Use Polaris connectors for the hots and Wago for the 10AWG ground.
Ideally you’d pull the 6/3 out of the old box and feed it right into the WC rather than splicing it. But if splicing is easier you can run 6/2 Romex inside the wall or THHN in conduit on the surface, converting the outlet box to a conduit junction as needed.
Ideally you’d pull the 6/3 out of the old box and feed it right into the WC rather than splicing it. But if splicing is easier you can run 6/2 Romex inside the wall or THHN in conduit on the surface, converting the outlet box to a conduit junction as needed.
I won't run into any NEC code issues doing this? Will the plastic box for the outlet be okay for this?
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Yes the plastic box is fine, assuming it was code compliant before.
Getting back to the main point of this thread...
The Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) receptacle is panned in the first post, the reasons given are not likely to be the actual reasons to avoid that model or the Leviton 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R).
Yes, the screw-down wire contacts do require careful installation, although the incidents of melting at the plug interface with no damage at the wire contacts suggests that the screw-down wire contacts are not the main issue. Note that most other NEMA 14-50R and 6-50R receptacles (including the Bryant 9650FR (NEMA 6-50R)) use screw-down wire contacts; the exceptions are the Hubbell 9450A and Bryant 9450FR (NEMA 14-50R) where the screw moves a clamping plate that clamps the wire with less chance of pushing the wire out of the clamping area.
The small size (apparently in the -S00 version) does not appear to be relevant from a quality standpoint, but does make it easier to fit into a small outlet box. Hence, if replacing a Leviton -S00 receptacle with some other one, it may be necessary to use a bigger box or an extension.
However, the main issue with the Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) and 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R) receptacles is that the plug blade contacts are steel instead of brass, and contact only about half of the plug blades, leading to higher resistance and heat. This is visible in photos like on the following pages:
Leviton 279-S00: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Leviton...-Receptacle-3P-50A-NEMA-14-50R-Black-125-250V
Leviton 5374-S00: Leviton 50 Amp 250 V Flush Receptacle in Black - 5374-S00 - Ferguson
If you look into the plug holes in most other NEMA 14-50R and 6-50R outlets, you will see brass contacts that touch the entire plug blade.
This difference in contacts touching the plug blades is not affected by how careful the installation is. In actual use, the Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) and 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R) appear to be marginal for 32A EV charging. With the Tesla mobile connector, they may be prone to reduced charging rate in warm weather due to triggering the high temperature sensor in the NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug head. Some have encountered excess heat causing the plastic part of the receptacle to melt, even though there is no sign of excess heat on the back with the screw-down wire contacts.
The Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) receptacle is panned in the first post, the reasons given are not likely to be the actual reasons to avoid that model or the Leviton 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R).
Yes, the screw-down wire contacts do require careful installation, although the incidents of melting at the plug interface with no damage at the wire contacts suggests that the screw-down wire contacts are not the main issue. Note that most other NEMA 14-50R and 6-50R receptacles (including the Bryant 9650FR (NEMA 6-50R)) use screw-down wire contacts; the exceptions are the Hubbell 9450A and Bryant 9450FR (NEMA 14-50R) where the screw moves a clamping plate that clamps the wire with less chance of pushing the wire out of the clamping area.
The small size (apparently in the -S00 version) does not appear to be relevant from a quality standpoint, but does make it easier to fit into a small outlet box. Hence, if replacing a Leviton -S00 receptacle with some other one, it may be necessary to use a bigger box or an extension.
However, the main issue with the Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) and 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R) receptacles is that the plug blade contacts are steel instead of brass, and contact only about half of the plug blades, leading to higher resistance and heat. This is visible in photos like on the following pages:
Leviton 279-S00: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Leviton...-Receptacle-3P-50A-NEMA-14-50R-Black-125-250V
Leviton 5374-S00: Leviton 50 Amp 250 V Flush Receptacle in Black - 5374-S00 - Ferguson
If you look into the plug holes in most other NEMA 14-50R and 6-50R outlets, you will see brass contacts that touch the entire plug blade.
This difference in contacts touching the plug blades is not affected by how careful the installation is. In actual use, the Leviton 279-S00 (NEMA 14-50R) and 5374-S00 (NEMA 6-50R) appear to be marginal for 32A EV charging. With the Tesla mobile connector, they may be prone to reduced charging rate in warm weather due to triggering the high temperature sensor in the NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug head. Some have encountered excess heat causing the plastic part of the receptacle to melt, even though there is no sign of excess heat on the back with the screw-down wire contacts.
Used a thermal gun and tested several areas including the plug itself, the outlet, and cable going to the charger.
Does this occur more often in warm weather?
Are the plug blade contacts full size brass contacts (there do not seem to be photos of that outlet on the web that would show that)? If not (i.e. steel or only partial contacts), you probably want to replace the outlet with one that has full size brass contacts. If yes, you may want to check that the wires are properly connected to the outlet (or have an electrician do that).
Similar threads
