Master Thread: Energy products and Tax discussions

[arnolddeleon]

This is not tax advice; you should probably talk to your accountant. My recollection is you can claim the credit when you "put it into service". Assuming you are allowed to turn the system on in Dec 2022 post inspection and probably just "not export" to the grid then you likely can "put it into service" in 2022.

 

[h2ofun]

Hi, I am in the process of having a 12kW solar system + 4 PWs installed at the beginning of December, with all required inspections completed by Dec 20th but PTO will most likely be done in January. Can I claim the 30% Solar tax credit for tax year 2022? Thanks!

When you pay for it is what I have been told

 

[sunwarriors]

To confuse you even more, I went with when I got PTO

It didn't affect me since I had months to get PTO and got it in about a week.

Reason being is because if you never get PTO, then the solar system is worth less compared to someone else and you can't export so it's not really fully in service. Many companies seem to require full payment after post inspection so that's probably a good milestone.

This means it's anyone's guess and whatever IRS wants to challenge what "put into service" really means.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

I believe you don’t pay until you get PTO with Tesla. But I believe it isn’t until you get PTO.

 

[jjrandorin]

I believe you don’t pay until you get PTO with Tesla. But I believe it isn’t until you get PTO.

Unless something has drastically changed, tesla required payment before filing with PTO with the utility.

This question comes up pretty much every november (ish), and from what recall, the operative words are "Put into service" as @arnolddeleon said. Its vague as to what that actually means.

 

[h2ofun]

I believe you don’t pay until you get PTO with Tesla. But I believe it isn’t until you get PTO.

I had to pay 90% before they would schedule a final inspection which is happening today. I pay rest after PTO I believe. Will be all paid before end of year

 

[CrazyRabbit]

I had to pay 90% before they would schedule a final inspection which is happening today. I pay rest after PTO I believe. Will be all paid before end of year

You're a non Tesla install if I’m not mistaken.

 

[h2ofun]

You're a non Tesla install if I’m not mistaken.

yep non tesla

 

[Tag Striker]

What paperwork have people given to their tax preparer to show the purchase and installation of solar? I don't think they ever gave me a final dated receipt or sales contract. The only thing in my documents is the loan agreement which was signed months prior to my install and PTO.

 

[jhn_]

What paperwork have people given to their tax preparer to show the purchase and installation of solar? I don't think they ever gave me a final dated receipt or sales contract. The only thing in my documents is the loan agreement which was signed months prior to my install and PTO.

The original purchase agreement or the final bill should be available on the Tesla website in your account’s documents section.

 

[sunwarriors]

My last 12 months electric bill with SCE was around 1300. For that last year, I had 10.2kw solar system + 2 PW2. I was using TOU mode all year with no changes to the setup.

I'm on TOU-D-PRIME.

I'd like to get my bill to or make money back.

I recently added 2 more PW2. So now 4 PW2 with my 10.2kw solar system. Does this make sense to improve my bill?:

- TOU on with 20% reserve
- Export Everything (previously I wasn't. just solar.)
- Grid charging on
- for my utility rate plan, I've edited to include the buy prices of off peak, mid peak, and super off peak. I've edited the sell prices to be .04 less than buy to account for NBCs (though IDK what the actual sell price is.)

So far, I've noticed grid charging starts at 8am during super off peak. It charges from 20% all the way to around 50-60%. Then solar power charges up the rest until 4pm. from 4-9 it's exporting everything down to 20% by 9pm. then back to the grid overnight for off-peak. (I typically charge our MX at 9pm once a week.)

Also, with off-peak at .22c and super off peak at .22c, how are they any different?

Do you have non-bypassable charges? Is there any reason to even have grid charging on if there is enough sun? I don't know SCE's rules, but outside of VPP events, I didn't think it was possible to get much $$ back since you sell back any excess at those low $0.05 rates and best case is usually zero out completely your bill with some credits after. Paying NBCs means you still generate charges and in your case, if you have NBCs, are a lot since you're always pulling everyday.

What I'm doing is just self power as much as possible and slow charge EV as necessary. This will become much easier probably starting in April.

Did you take the tax credit on powerwalls? A lot of people seem to be going to just charge off peak from grid, and export, but I still haven't seen clear rules from the IRS for people who installed solar/batteries under the old terms to be doing that (within the 1st 5 years).

 

[Jeremy3292]

Did you take the tax credit on powerwalls? A lot of people seem to be going to just charge off peak from grid, and export, but I still haven't seen clear rules from the IRS for people who installed solar/batteries under the old terms to be doing that (within the 1st 5 years).

How would the IRS ever know or even being able to audit any and every person who *may be* charging their Powerwalls from the grid? Doesn’t even seem like something remotely plausible.

 

[astrorob]

How would the IRS ever know or even being able to audit any and every person who *may be* charging their Powerwalls from the grid? Doesn’t even seem like something remotely plausible.

i guess it all depends on whether or not your utility or Tesla decides to "cooperate" with the feds.

the utility can't know for sure you are grid charging but of course certain patterns of consumption would indicate it is likely. and of course tesla knows exactly what your powerwall is doing at all times.

 

[BGbreeder]

Given probable cause, say a written record of battery owners declaring publicly that they are grid charging, an IRS subpoena to a manufacturer that has data demonstrating the grid charging would seem to me to be both supported, and likely to yield actionable information...

Whether the IRS believes that such endeavor is worthwhile, or productive, is a different question.

Just observing...

 

[Jeremy3292]

Given probable cause, say a written record of battery owners declaring publicly that they are grid charging, an IRS subpoena to a manufacturer that has data demonstrating the grid charging would seem to me to be both supported, and likely to yield actionable information...

Whether the IRS believes that such endeavor is worthwhile, or productive, is a different question.

Just observing...

I think that is a far fetched outcome that the IRS could even get a subpoena for that data, that Tesla would then comply with the subpoena without a legal battle, and that then the IRS would use that data to match it up to taxpayers who took tax credits for it, and then allocate how much tax credit should be paid back to the IRS based on how much you grid charged vs solar charged? There isn't even an IRS ruling on grid charging, just a PLR which has no authority outside of the specific taxpayer who requested it for his/her specific case.

But then again the IRS seems to care who is sending $600 or more on Venmo or eBay...the middle class always bears the burden...

 

[astrorob]

I think that is a far fetched outcome that the IRS could even get a subpoena for that data, that Tesla would then comply with the subpoena without a legal battle, and that then the IRS would use that data to match it up to taxpayers who took tax credits for it, and then allocate how much tax credit should be paid back to the IRS based on how much you grid charged vs solar charged? There isn't even an IRS ruling on grid charging, just a PLR which has no authority outside of the specific taxpayer who requested it for his/her specific case.

But then again the IRS seems to care who is sending $600 or more on Venmo or eBay...the middle class always bears the burden...

i mean, you asked how the IRS would or could know. the answer is, with some effort, they can know. i agree it's not likely that they would put effort into this, but it is technically knowable.

i really doubt tesla would spend a red cent defending their customers. it's not EM's way. they don't care about precedents or anything that "normal" companies might care about.

 

[aesculus]

the utility can't know for sure you are grid charging but of course certain patterns of consumption would indicate it is likely. and of course tesla knows exactly what your powerwall is doing at all times.

Probably not if you have heat pumps and/or an EV. Those two overwhelm any grid charging I could ever do with 2 PWs.

 

[lensovet]

How would the IRS ever know or even being able to audit any and every person who *may be* charging their Powerwalls from the grid? Doesn’t even seem like something remotely plausible.

Is just abiding by the law and terms you agreed to when you purchased the thing too much? If murder was legal would you just go shoot up people you didn’t like?

 

[HankLloydRight]

 

[Jeremy3292]

Is just abiding by the law and terms you agreed to when you purchased the thing too much? If murder was legal would you just go shoot up people you didn’t like?

I debated whether to even respond to this post or not, but since you quoted me and questioned my ethics I will.

There are no terms agreed to that state you cannot grid charge. There is no law that says you cannot grid charge. There is no IRS publication that says you cannot grid charge.

If you feel uncomfortable grid charging, then by all means feel free to refrain from doing so.

But there is absolutely nothing that states or even implies a lack of ethical or moral standards when it comes to this.