Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[DougWantsALeaf]

Most evs lose 5% in the first year. The rated range isn't influenced much by driving style.

 

[jjrandorin]

I think your missing the point of my post here. I got the car in winter and now its summer and hot so cant believe that would be anything but a positive. My point is I have driven the car much more conservatively in 4000 of those miles and yet the range was higher up to 10,000 miles and mostly in colder conditions. I understand range will reduce with mileage but dont understand how it can reduce by 10 miles whilst driving considerably more efficiently

I dont think @Sophias_dad dad was missing the point. Your complaint is, basically "why have I lost 8 miles off my 90% range number?", which is the same basic question being asked by almost everyone else. Weather doesnt impact RATED range (at least not till it gets so cold the battery locks out part of the capacity). Weather impacts ACTUAL range.

Your total battery capacity is reduced, which has nothing to do with how efficiently you drive or not.

 

[KenC]

I took delivery of my Model 3 LR in December 2020 and over the course of the next 5 months I drove 10,000 miles at 257 Wh/mile. During this time I charged on a normal domestic plug and did not use a supercharger. At 90% charge the range was between 300 and 303 and when I did charge it fully once it had a range of 337 miles.

I then installed a faster charger at work which charged at 33 Miles per hour and with a holiday in Scotland planned for this summer decided to stop having so much fun and drive the car conservatively . Over the course of the last 4000 miles I have driven at 222 Wh/mile but to my utter confusion my 90% range has fallen to 292 and my full range down to 322.

Can someone explain this to me as I dont understand. I spoke to Tesla service but they dont understand and told me not to be worried. How can driving the car considerably more efficiently be reducing the range so much ? Is the faster charger causing this ? I'd be shocked if it was as this is what your supposed to install at home.

Has anyone else had this issue or can anyone explain ?

Batteries may degrade solely over time, unless stored at lower SOC levels, 50% or less. Batteries may degrade as the miles pile up, and you seem to drive more than average, 10k miles in 5 months. Fast discharging and fast charging may contribute to degradation, rather than average efficiency levels. Doesn't sound like you've done much of that, as all levels of AC charging is considered slow. The only thing that sticks out to me is that it sounds like you keep the 3 at 90% SOC. Perhaps try a different SOC limit, like 80% or less. Whenever something isn't working for you, change it up.

 

[Dave EV]

indeed.
Unlike the S/X with the highly variable but usually low time based degradation Model 3 seems to be very consistent with 5% loss in the first year followed by 3-4% in the second year.

Looking at the very high milage leaderboard on teslafi you then get another 1-2% over the next 100k kms.

A more time based degradation system (by whatever means in the chemistry they achieved this) is ok but it is frustrating that the model S/X even with old age and high miles has so much less degradation than the 3 on average

Yeah, the 85/100 kWh Model S/X packs seem to have very low capacity loss. A lot of 85 kWh packs had BMS induced range loss due to some issues with the BMS, but most of that was picked back up over time. That said, 85 kWh packs don't charge very fast. 90 kWh packs seem to be fairly similar to Model 3 packs - lose capacity fairly rapidly at the beginning, good Supercharging, then taper off.

But then 100 kWh packs also seem to be pretty durable with low rates of capacity loss and also have good Supercharging speeds, so I would have expected Model 3 packs to be more like 100 kWh packs. But maybe the Model 3 cells have more silicon than the Model S/X 100 kWh packs and thus lose capacity faster early on.

Anyway, it does seem to be pretty normal for the Model 3 to fairly quickly drop down 5-10% over the first few years, then stabilize. Time seems to matter more than mileage. What remains to be seen is how stable will it remain at this point.

im very very keen to see degradation data for the iron batteries. theres a few people here in Aus with new SR+ who seem to be happy to arrive at the shopping centres with 95% SOC and plug their cars in.... so the cars spend a lot of time sitting at 100%...

Not convinced that that is ideal. Tesla recommends charging the car to 100% frequently but imho this is just for better range estimation as the car cant really estimate SOC until above 98%. I reckon there is still less degradation keeping it at <90%.

When the SR+ was initially released in Germany there were many people supercharging their cars and the car would still charge with 40kw at 99% so the estimation was completely off.

LiFePO can more more durable than NCA at high states of charge, but even then it's still subject to the same factors that cause capacity loss - high SOC and high temperatures accelerate the rate of capacity loss. That said - the durability may be good enough that it doesn't make much of a difference in the long run if the rate of capacity loss is low enough.

Batteries may degrade solely over time, unless stored at lower SOC levels, 50% or less. Batteries may degrade as the miles pile up, and you seem to drive more than average, 10k miles in 5 months. Fast discharging and fast charging may contribute to degradation, rather than average efficiency levels. Doesn't sound like you've done much of that, as all levels of AC charging is considered slow. The only thing that sticks out to me is that it sounds like you keep the 3 at 90% SOC. Perhaps try a different SOC limit, like 80% or less. Whenever something isn't working for you, change it up.

Lithium batteries always degrade over time. The question is how fast is it degrading compared to what your expectation of usable life is.

 

[JackLuminous]

I know I know, this has been the longest debate of them all. However, after many days of finding and reviewing as much research and articles, it has come down to what’s best for daily charging.

In y’all’s experiences, do you charge to 80% or 90%? Any additional advice?

Using the standard Level 1 110v outlet until my NEMA 14-50 Level 2 240v is installed next week.

We charge daily to 80% on NEMA 14-30. My wife does about 50 mikes per day, 36 of which is highway. Dunno if it's the heat right now but Wh/mile is 325

 

[Flesh]

I get 267 range at 90%.

Hi whats your kw/km to make this range? I have a model 3 performance and cant lower it less than 220wh/km and i make barely 250-280km

 

[Artofangie]

My SR+ gets 223-225 at full charge. I called Tesla and they said to drain the battery then charge to 100% and repeat 3x’s to let the software recalculate. However, while on a recent road trip I noticed that i gained 6% range (I had just parked my car and the reading said 41% then when I got out the restaurant and into my car it said 47%). I don’t know if that’s due to a software upgrade? Anyone else have this happen?

Are you sure that's true for the SR+ model too? From what I've seen it's a good bit more efficient than the dual motor models. I know my performance model's rated range is based on 250 wh/mi, which I have no problem hitting now in the summer months even while not attempting to. The 250 number for rated range would be pretty high for a SR+ model.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don’t know if that’s due to a software upgrade? Anyone else have this happen?

No this is normal and happens, it's just the BMS re-estimating and possibly rebalancing.

I wouldn't worry about your car. You have the standard ~10% capacity loss. Very normal. Not sure why Tesla is trying to make you jump through hoops. Of course you might well regain 1kWh or two but it's not like it's going to go back to 240 or 250 miles or anything like that. Those days of youthful vigor are gone. Entropy!

 

[Rmorse1]

Curious to hear what the community thinks of my situation. Bought a used 2019 SR+ from Tesla. 21k Miles. No FSD. Car has been in AZ.

I was surprised to see my max range at 203 on my first day when I charged up to 100%.

I've tried some of the tips in the post, but I decided to really focus on the capacity more than 100% SOC.

I've done a 100 to 0 % drive to see what my KW used would be and I was at 42KW with 2 miles left on my range.

Per my calculations based on another post here, I have between 42.5 & 43.5 KW usable. Down from 55KW * .95 (BUFFER)= 52.25 KW

I've reached out to tesla and to quote, they said my battery is in "excellent health". Current 100% state of charge has not gone above 200 in the last month. I've been averaging 196 to 198. I'm only 2K miles in since I bought at the beginning of June. Really wrestling with whether to trade it in or not in the current market. Obviously if my degradation is truly at -18% or so, I'm on track to hit 70% within the battery warranty. Per teslafi there is only one other car out of 450 at the same level as me. I'm the 1% on the low end of range.

 

[Flesh]

Hello is normal that i make 200 km on my m3 performance 2019 with 250kw/h consumption (this is highway driving 160km/h)? Some times it dries up even around 150 if i push the car in city and off the city. Only few times i got 250 plus km but going like 130km\h on the highway. Is normal?

 

[Flesh]

Hello is normal that i make 200 km on my m3 performance 2019 with 250kw/h consumption (this is highway driving 160km/h)? Some times it dries up even around 150 if i push the car in city and off the city. Only few times i got 250 plus km but going like 130km\h on the highway. Is normal?

And few days back on avrg 240kw/h it used 30kw to make 100km. It feels wrong

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Obviously if my degradation is truly at -18% or so, I'm on track to hit 70% within the battery warranty. Per teslafi there is only one other car out of 450 at the same level as me. I'm the 1% on the low end of range.

Yeah that is on the low end. It’s 15-18% though. Your data suggests about 45kWh capacity (42kWh*203mi/201mi/0.99/0.955 = 45kWh). Or just do 198/240 = 82.5% (17.5%), 43.5kWh. Your vehicle started at 52.5kWh. (2021 models have FPWN of 55.4kWh though they don’t seem to charge to that level.) Always should check a used car’s range! One of the great things about used car buying is you can determine exactly how the car aged in the first couple years - just charge it to 100% (or extrapolate - not preferred) before you sign on the dotted line. I don’t think you’ll hit the warranty though. Possible but I doubt it.

i make 200 km on my m3 performance 2019 with 250kw/h consumption (this is highway driving 160km/h

It’s Wh/km.

200km at 250Wh/km is 50.5kWh from the battery. That would be 216 rated miles used, 347 rated km.

It’s only useful to measure these ranges if they are done in a single session (no stopping). Cannot stop. Cannot leave car overnight. Etc. If you think there is some sort of problem, just get the rated miles at 100% - it basically tells the whole story in nearly every case. You’re probably at 460km or so (no idea!) which is normal.

 

[Flesh]

Yeah that is on the low end. It’s 15-18% though. Your data suggests about 45kWh capacity (42kWh*203mi/201mi/0.99/0.955 = 45kWh). Or just do 198/240 = 82.5% (17.5%), 43.5kWh. Your vehicle started at 52.5kWh. (2021 models have FPWN of 55.4kWh though they don’t seem to charge to that level.) Always should check a used car’s range! One of the great things about used car buying is you can determine exactly how the car aged in the first couple years - just charge it to 100% (or extrapolate - not preferred) before you sign on the dotted line. I don’t think you’ll hit the warranty though. Possible but I doubt it.



It’s Wh/km.

200km at 250Wh/km is 50.5kWh from the battery. That would be 216 rated miles used, 347 rated km.

It’s only useful to measure these ranges if they are done in a single session (no stopping). Cannot stop. Cannot leave car overnight. Etc. If you think there is some sort of problem, just get the rated miles at 100% - it basically tells the whole story in nearly every case. You’re probably at 460km or so (no idea!) which is normal.

Yes i am around there. Is just annoying that sometimes you get less than 200km for full charge. You need to drive really slow to get that 300km. Are the 2021 model better?

 

[Rmorse1]

Yeah that is on the low end. It’s 15-18% though. Your data suggests about 45kWh capacity (42kWh*203mi/201mi/0.99/0.955 = 45kWh). Or just do 198/240 = 82.5% (17.5%), 43.5kWh. Your vehicle started at 52.5kWh. (2021 models have FPWN of 55.4kWh though they don’t seem to charge to that level.) Always should check a used car’s range! One of the great things about used car buying is you can determine exactly how the car aged in the first couple years - just charge it to 100% (or extrapolate - not preferred) before you sign on the dotted line. I don’t think you’ll hit the warranty though. Possible but I doubt it.



It’s Wh/km.

200km at 250Wh/km is 50.5kWh from the battery. That would be 216 rated miles used, 347 rated km.

It’s only useful to measure these ranges if they are done in a single session (no stopping). Cannot stop. Cannot leave car overnight. Etc. If you think there is some sort of problem, just get the rated miles at 100% - it basically tells the whole story in nearly every case. You’re probably at 460km or so (no idea!) which is normal.

Thanks for the input! Yeah, I bought from Tesla and to be honest, didn't do the due diligence I should have when picking up. They didn't show me the vehicle before it was signed for and I should have insisted. Fortunately for me, it doesn't really affect me day to day, so just more of an irritant going forward. Going on my first road trip (700 miles one way), we will see if this warrants a second LR model added to the garage.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

we will see if this warrants a second LR model added to the garage.

You know what to do if you buy it used!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes i am around there. Is just annoying that sometimes you get less than 200km for full charge. You need to drive really slow to get that 300km. Are the 2021 model better?

No, you really don’t need to drive slow to get the 300km this time of year. I drive 130km/hr and have no problem. Driving 160km/hr (100mph) honestly is probably not the best idea regardless. And yes at that speed it will be worse. But at 400Wh/mi, 250Wh/km, you’ll still be able to go at least 280km, 175 miles. With a brand new car you should be able to do ~300km at that efficiency, if you insist.

 

[Rick Friedberg]

My range can’t be extended past 202 miles even though the standard model 3 lists 240 miles. I have tried the settings on the touch screen and phone but can’t extend. Suggestions?

 

[Rick Friedberg]

A/C can’t be set to 0. Only 1 keeps on. Uses battery. What do I do?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My range can’t be extended past 202 miles even though the standard model 3 lists 240 miles. I have tried the settings on the touch screen and phone but can’t extend. Suggestions?

This is something that happens for vehicles that are a couple years old. Without more details on the age of your vehicle (sounds like it's a 2019 though) it is hard to say whether this is normal. For a 2019 this would be something that is relatively normal (depends on age and mileage and luck).

That would mean that the battery has lost about 15% of its capacity, or the BMS estimates that it has.

As pointed out below, we don't even know for sure what your vehicle's original range was. I'm assuming a 2019 SR+ in the above. Obviously 202 miles would be much more common in the SR - but is certainly possible for the SR+ as well (there are multiple reports of 15% capacity loss).

 

[MP3Mike]

My range can’t be extended past 202 miles even though the standard model 3 lists 240 miles. I have tried the settings on the touch screen and phone but can’t extend. Suggestions?

Do you have a SR, standard range, or a SR+?

The SR has a listed range of 220 miles...