Winter driving advice, winter tire choices, etc.

[RJS85]

nicholb- thanks so much for taking the time to put this post up. I have the exact same car and this will be my first winter so am happy to get any advice from experienced users as possible. this and some of the responses have been helpful in rounding out what you read in the manual and elsewhere. much appreciated!

 

[Elle_H2]

I live in Golden and drive the hill every day for work in a M3P with stock tires. This will be my second winter. Can't speak about the alpin tires but you should be good. I don't think you need chains.

You’ve got a model 3 performance and use the stock 20” wheels and tires during winter in CO? I’m impressed! I’ve been worried about ordering a M3P because of winter in CT. Any issues with clearance (since the car is lower than other specs)?

 

[WKE3]

Hey nicholb this was a great write up. I just wanted to reiterate the regen braking point in very cold temps. If you aren't expecting it to basically not be "there" when you let up on the accelerator, it can be a shock. You need to be prepared for it until the batteries warm up a bit and it comes back on gradually.

 

[NIKOLA696]

You’ve got a model 3 performance and use the stock 20” wheels and tires during winter in CO? I’m impressed! I’ve been worried about ordering a M3P because of winter in CT. Any issues with clearance (since the car is lower than other specs)?

My performance did not include the upgrade package with brakes, spoiler and 20" wheels, the only option I did not get. So I'm running 18" wheels and I'm shopping for snow tires now. I'm from MI so know about CT. I wouldn't let winter keep you from a M3P. ; )

 

[CounsellorTroy]

Thank you NicholB for your comprehensive winter experience list. I have a Model X which is AWD and have to say that the winter handling is amazing because the car is so well balanced, front to back, unlike ICE vehicles. I did put on Bridgestone Blizzak's (20") all around and highly recommend them. This is the second vehicle that I have used the Blizzak winter tire on and have been very pleased with their snow and ice traction. For me, the biggest obstacle for winter driving is the reduced range. However, it just requires a bit more planning (like preheating) and making sure that all "rest stops" also include a Supercharger. It is totally doable to go pretty much up and down the east coast in the winter without being fearful of running out of battery - it just takes a little additional planning. On that note, if the navigation system allowed entering in stops/waypoints, as well as directly managing Supercharger stops instead of doing it automatically, that would be hugely helpful in planning excursions.

 

[RedTesY]

I don't see any mention of tire chains in the posts so far. Check out Auto Socks, from your local tire store or Amazon. They are super easy to put on and take off, and work great. A legal alternative to tire chains in over 30 states.
After a career driving on snow and ice much of the year in the National Park Service, the biggest factors to driving safely are good snow tires on all four wheels, and driver experience and behavior - slow down, take a winter driving course!

 

[Michael Ferris]

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

 

[MikeMcc]

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

This is great! Thank you very much!

 

[Michael Ferris]

Thanks for the tips, excellent. I just bought winter rims/tires. There is a Canadian company called FASTWHEELS (fastwheels.ca) that has designed some mag rims specifically for EV's. Tested on the M3 they gave exactly the same effeciency (+4% range) as the Tesla rim, but cost a lot less than Tesla's. They are called EV 02. They were USD $ 167.00.

 

[Krusty]

Ran last winter on Toyo walnuts with stock rims. LR/RWD drove very competently! Rotors will rust if you don't use the brakes! Use em! I dim the regen when wet to help dry them out and keep polished. Ditto, after a carwash....year round. Also, I turn charge rate down to 20 amps for low/slow charge all night, calculated to be ALMOST, but not finished when I leave in the morning. Use app to preheat seat and cabin. All is well....and WAY better than driving ICE!

 

[ijaaz]

How do we deal with frozen doors? I've had multiple instances where I couldn't open the doors. Some where the door would open, but the window would freeze and prevent me from closing the door...

 

[CWO-MN]

Great write up!

Go with the winter tire/wheel set up. The tire compound on winter tires are softer, which is even more evident as the temp drops below 40 degrees. The industry as a whole has firmed up the compound on 'all season' tires so they last longer, at the detriment to cold weather driving. In addition, the industry has moved away from 'Snow' tires and towards 'winter' tires. Part of this may be to reach a larger swath of customers in parts of the country where it may only snow a couple times a year, but where the temp is below 40.

Some people swap (re-mount) their tires back and forth 2x a year, but that's just a lot of hassle. The advantages to a dedicated winter setup is: less wear & tear mounting 2 times a year, scratching or denting an aftermarket rim in the winter is less expensive, and by having 2 sets, they last longer in total.

Sure, Teslas have great traction control, and it is better than other cars on the market, when compared on the same tires. Winter tires are just better for starting, turning and stopping in cold and snow conditions though. Can you also wear cowboy boots in the winter, sure.

How many members have driven on winter tires for a season, then said, "I think I'm just going to keep my all-season tires on this winter?"

 

[Feathermerchan]

To those who anguish over losing regen and range in the winter: Take Heart! Less regen means a little more range.
Regen takes the car's momentum anduses it to charge the battery for use later. But there are inefficiencies with every step in the process. From the pavement to the tires, tires thru the gearbox, motor/inverter, battery. Then to use the energy in the battery, all those in reverse. This can be demonstrated by simply driving to minimize regen in normal weather. It seems worth 20 Wh/mi or so.
Hope this makes you feel better.

 

[SageBrush]

Less regen means a little more range.

Less Braking means more range. But if you are going to brake, then regen braking recovers ~ 50% of the energy lost in friction braking.

 

[ElectricOrgan]

To those who anguish over losing regen and range in the winter: Take Heart! Less regen means a little more range.
Regen takes the car's momentum anduses it to charge the battery for use later. But there are inefficiencies with every step in the process. From the pavement to the tires, tires thru the gearbox, motor/inverter, battery. Then to use the energy in the battery, all those in reverse. This can be demonstrated by simply driving to minimize regen in normal weather. It seems worth 20 Wh/mi or so.
Hope this makes you feel better.

Not sure I understand what it is you feel is happening when regen is turned off or down. Regen only acts when the car is slowing down or you are going down a steep hill. Those are the times you want regen to kick in because the alternative is to use the brakes which work with 0% recovery of the energy put into the car. Isn't 80% better than zero?

 

[bpjod]

Fantastic list @nicholb. I drove last winter in Alberta with a 3 LR RWD. Many trips to the ski hills. Long road trips in -30C. Drove through the worst 2 blizzards in Alberta last winter. Lots of experience here!

Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.

I had no use for Chill mode last winter. Simply feather the accelerator properly. In extremely icy conditions (think freezing rain with a dusting of snow on top) when the regeneration is mostly back (battery fully warmed up), you might want to reduce the regeneration in settings to avoid a nasty surprise. It happened to me once, but traction control quickly kicked in and nothing happened other than a 1/2 second butt cheek clench. The rest of the time standard regeneration was fine.

Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.

If the blue/red settings aren't working for you, go into the climate settings for the car. Manually set the temperature and fan speed and where to direct the air (you can pick any one of/combo of defrost, vent and feet). That's how you can get "something in between".

Wipers: If you're worried about the wipers freezing to the windshield, then turn on Settings | Service | Wiper Service Mode. This will move the wipers up a couple of inches. They can't be lifted off the windshield and stay there, but it does make it easier to lift the wipers off the windshield if needed when you get back. I suppose you could place an object under them if really needed.

Slip Start: Settings | Driving | Slip Start. If the car is on ice it's possible to press the accelerator and nothing happens. The traction control system (TCS) detects that the wheels will slip and in order to prevent slippage, no power is transferred to the wheels. Flip this setting on and the TCS will allow some slippage to let you get moving.

Keep Climate On: Whenever you run into a store and want to come back to a warm car, remember to press the Climate control button, then turn on Keep Climate On. Guilt free toasty cabin when you return!

Supercharging: I had real issues with very slow Supercharging due to a cold battery. This was an issue even after 4 hours of highway driving in cold temps. I really look forward to seeing how the battery pre-heating works this winter. I spent a couple of long calls with Tesla support while having issues with this and I suggested they implement a fix where if a Supercharger was a destination in the Nav, then they pre-heat the battery. I was thrilled to see this implemented. Now to see how it works in a Northern Canadian winter!

Tires: The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 tires were fantastic and confidence inspiring.

 

[robynj]

It's my first winter here in colorado and a first with my p3d. I was looking to get some advice from locals or others who've been in similar winter conditions.

I put on michelin alpin pa4 n-specs on the 20" performance wheels and am already thinking of exchanging them for hakka r3's after reading that the alpins don't perform too great on snow covered roads. I don't know how bad the roads get in CO hence my concern, and also that I'll likely by driving up to the slopes to ski every weekend if not every other day. Can anyone comment on the conditions here ( I-70, roads to eldora, arapahoe, etc.) and whether the alpin's are good enough to hold up to them?

I'd thought of getting the 20" chains from tesla but it's hard for me to justify 300$ chains..

I lived in Colorado for 20 + years. Going over the passes in snowstorms is about the worst driving conditions you will ever experience. Get the best snow tires you can afford.

if you have an AWD car, you definitely shouldn't need chains. With a RWD car, I don't know because I never tried to drive a RWD car in Colorado mountains.

I don't the tire you are referring to, sorry.

 

[KetchupKilla]

So I know cold weather is rough on the batteries mainly until they get warm again. I currently only use my vehicle a couple times a week mainly weekends and it sits outside constantly plugged in. I know about pre conditioning by turning the heat on for a while to get the temps up which also kills the battery if not plugged in. I hear people on these forums say if it's plugged in it won't use the battery because it's plugged in.

I'm not so sure that is the case. In my opinion it is still using the battery and just recharging it as it's being used. So it does put stress on the battery as part of a cycle. Maybe not as much but still something. Correct me if I am wrong about this.

Besides this anybody have any other best practices for their car during the winter. BTW from the south south in Massachusetts to give an idea about the kind of winter we have.

 

[St. Rock]

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Colder temps are actually better for battery longevity than very hot temps. It's just not good for range as more energy is used for cabin heating and preconditioning for optimal operations.

However, charging a cold battery very quickly = bad news bears. The BMS manages all this by limiting the charge current appropriate for the pack temp. Thus, if arriving at a SuC with a cold soak battery, it'll take maybe five to ten minutes of low charge rate conditioning to bring temps up to speed for high speed charging.

Overall, winter = less convenience aside from charging to 90% doesn't do as much degradation as charging to 90% during a hot summer.

Best practice would be to (depending on your home charging setup) charge up to 70 to 80% and then start charging 1 or 2 hours before leaving in the morning to 90%.

Third party schedulers can be helpful here. This warms up the battery in the morning with the benefits of near full regen available because the pack is warmed up and your cabin is warmed and any snow build up is melted off/slides off.