Mercedes approved for ACTUAL self driving in the USA. And will accept responsibility.

[kabin]

Counter argument. Should there be a legally affixed signal light on the roof to say L3 operating?

Maybe California would be first. And if the technology ever matures the law might change to an indicator for vehicles not running in L3.

On the downside. Indicators might allow assertive drivers to target L3 drivers for last minute cut-ins. And like a slippery slope fewer drivers would want be behind an L3 indicated vehicle.

 

[Tam]

How are cops supposed to know...

The same way when a brand new car drives without a plate.

Cops assume citizens are good unless they can spot some violations like the fatal traffic stop of Daunte Wright for air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror.

In L3 case, if the driver is on the phone but the car drives like a drunkard with illogical auto lane changes and 8-car pile-up phantom brakes, that's a good time to stop the driver for proof of L3.

 

[emmz0r]

So any Germans been able to test this ?
been remarkably few user videos (not motor magazines accompanied with a safety driver )

 

[Dan D.]

The same way when a brand new car drives without a plate.

Cops assume citizens are good unless they can spot some violations like the fatal traffic stop of Daunte Wright for air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror.

In L3 case, if the driver is on the phone but the car drives like a drunkard with illogical auto lane changes and 8-car pile-up phantom brakes, that's a good time to stop the driver for proof of L3.

"proof of L3"

I had a look at the Mercedes integrated dashcam info. It appears to be able to record video footage from front and rear cameras and select data like location, speed, date and time. Conceivably it may also record Drive Pilot (L3) status, but I didn't find a specific mention to that. I had a read through the EQS and Drive Pilot manuals but didn't find anything about "proving L3 usage", nor about any interior camera recording.

I would expect Mercedes have thought of this and there seem to be systems set up that COULD in theory record and prove L3 usage.

 

[Tam]

"proof of L3"

I had a look at the Mercedes integrated dashcam info. It appears to be able to record video footage from front and rear cameras and select data like location, speed, date and time. Conceivably it may also record Drive Pilot (L3) status, but I didn't find a specific mention to that. I had a read through the Drive Pilot manual but didn't find anything about "proving L3 usage", nor about any interior camera recording.

I would expect Mercedes have thought of this and there seem to be systems set up that COULD in theory record and prove L3 usage.

In that case, cops would cite the driver for reckless driving first, then the driver has to bring the car logs from Mercedes to court to cancel the ticket.

Currently, as San Francisco has found out, there are laws to ticket humans but cops can't ticket a reckless robot nor its reckless manufacturers.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

The whole self driving dynamic is getting out of hand.

It’s really simple. Full autonomy (level 5) will never exist unless vehicles on the road have the same type of technology that airplanes in the sky do.

Airplanes travel in a MUCH larger space.. yet they are still required by the FAA to have technology that communicates with every other plane in their remote airspace. Every plane flying is constantly communicating with a tower down on the ground and also every other plane within a certain range in the sky. This (along with predetermined flight paths) is how airplanes are able to fly without hitting each other even with the massive amount of room.

Cars on the streets or highways are the polar opposite. Everyone is extremely close to one another. Every manufacturer can have their own ADAS systems but they need to be able to communicate with one another for it to be totally fail safe.

We are a long way away from this.

Only when Tesla’s, Mercedes, GM’s, etc are able to communicate with each other in real time as they are all driving down the same road will full autonomous driving be safe.

Too many variables for it to be possible any other way.

 

[zoomer0056]

there are laws to ticket humans but cops can't ticket a reckless robot

For now, the human behind the wheel assumes all liability.

 

[Dan D.]

Currently, as San Francisco has found out, there are laws to ticket humans but cops can't ticket a reckless robot nor its reckless manufacturers.

Yes I wonder what the penalty is for vehicular homicide under L3+ and who/what goes to jail. I expect we'll find out soon enough. Will vary by state and country, and there will be criminal/non-criminal varieties of charges no doubt. Presumably they will be "unintentional" unless you can prove the car meant to do it...

 

[Dan D.]

For now, the human behind the wheel assumes all liability.

Mercedes has accepted liability under strict conditions.
https://thedeepdive.ca/what-mercede...self-driving-cars-means-for-other-automakers/

I suppose one possibility for penalty options is to consider who gets charged if a non-piloted light-rail train kills someone. I suspect no one does. Unless you can prove negligent design (or negligent maintenance/tampering by the owner). Courts may consider an L3+ vehicle under a similar framework?

 

[Tam]

...I suspect no one does...

I don’t see why robots get a pass in traffic violations.

Robots are not God!

When it does a rolling-stop, a human in the background, hiding under all those code lines made it happen.

That means it's not the robots who made the decision to violate a stop sign law, it's the programmers who did it!

 

[enemji]

That means it's not the robots who made the decision to violate a stop sign law, it's programmers did!

When I was growing up, the driver was never held responsible for a death in an accident. It was all god’s fault.

 

[Dan D.]

I don’t see why robots get a pass in traffic violations.

Robots are not God!

When it does a rolling-stop, a human in the background, hiding under all those code lines made it happen.

That means it's not the robots who made the decision to violate a stop sign law, it's the programmers who did it!

Rolling-stops or any intentional breaches of driving laws will probably be dealt with harshly. Those who approved such coding may find themselves personally liable. People from companies do go to jail sometimes.

I'm sure that barring deliberate negligence, a programmer will not be personally liable. Crappy software/hardware that "should have reasonably avoided the crash" will be the company's liability and there could be negligence resulting in penalties. Software/hardware that "could not reasonably avoid the crash" will be the company's liability under their insurance. Possibly a driver that "clearly could have done something to avoid the crash, but didn't try" may still find they have some exposure to civil liability.

I'm sure the car company, the driver, and any victims will attempt to also blame anyone else under the sun too. Repair & service companies, the car owner for negligent maintenance, the state roadway maintenance and line-painting crews, the other motorists, the telecom company for faulty network coverage, the supplier of "defective" car components, etc.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Mercedes has accepted liability under strict conditions.
https://thedeepdive.ca/what-mercede...self-driving-cars-means-for-other-automakers/

I suppose one possibility for penalty options is to consider who gets charged if a non-piloted light-rail train kills someone. I suspect no one does. Unless you can prove negligent design (or negligent maintenance/tampering by the owner). Courts may consider an L3+ vehicle under a similar framework?

Well, a light rail train still has a human operator (or at least a human available) remotely. So in all actuality, a human is in place (remotely) to ensure that the systems don’t malfunction and cause a catastrophic event.

At the end of the day, these automated trains are only allowed to run because a human is able to intervene if needed.

There will never be a trial or jail for non-living things like cars or trains. At the end of the day, some guy (or gal) will be held responsible.

 

[Dan D.]

Well, a light rail train still has a human operator (or at least a human available) remotely. So in all actuality, a human is in place (remotely) to ensure that the systems don’t malfunction and cause a catastrophic event.

At the end of the day, these automated trains are only allowed to run because a human is able to intervene if needed.

There will never be a trial or jail for non-living things like cars or trains. At the end of the day, some guy (or gal) will be held responsible.

I did state non-piloted, ie: no human operator. There are many systems with no human operator, most or all are rail-based.

For example we have the Skytrain system in Vancouver operating entirely automatically on rails. There are systems of sensors to detect track intrusion but no human is operating the controls. (It can be driven manually but in typical use it is unmanned).

There is no human monitoring the train except possibly there could be video screens in a main terminal, but as far as I know they are not responsible for monitoring the train. Though this is a train so there are rails. There are no real threats, no cars crossing the tracks etc.

 

[zoomer0056]

Mercedes has accepted liability under strict conditions.
https://thedeepdive.ca/what-mercede...self-driving-cars-means-for-other-automakers/

I suppose one possibility for penalty options is to consider who gets charged if a non-piloted light-rail train kills someone. I suspect no one does. Unless you can prove negligent design (or negligent maintenance/tampering by the owner). Courts may consider an L3+ vehicle under a similar framework?

The article contradicts itself.

"This essentially allows the manufacturer to produce cars in which drivers can legally take their eyes off the wheel and do secondary tasks, but still requires drivers to be prepared to take back control should the situation require their attention.

However, earlier in March, Mercedes-Benz boldly claimed responsibility for crashes that would come after a driver engages the car’s advanced driver assistance system. Once it’s turned on, the driver is no longer legally liable, but Mercedes-Benz is."

Can "take their eyes off the wheel".
Strange wording, the eyes are on the road, not the wheel.

More strange wording
"must be prepared to take back control."
"but is not responsible "

 

[enemji]

The article contradicts itself.

"This essentially allows the manufacturer to produce cars in which drivers can legally take their eyes off the wheel and do secondary tasks, but still requires drivers to be prepared to take back control should the situation require their attention.

However, earlier in March, Mercedes-Benz boldly claimed responsibility for crashes that would come after a driver engages the car’s advanced driver assistance system. Once it’s turned on, the driver is no longer legally liable, but Mercedes-Benz is."

Can "take their eyes off the wheel".
Strange wording, the eyes are on the road, not the wheel.

More strange wording
"must be prepared to take back control."
"but is not responsible "

Either I drive or the car. I am not accepting anything in between. That is twice as much work I will be putting in to drive.

 

[dbldwn02]

The article contradicts itself.

"This essentially allows the manufacturer to produce cars in which drivers can legally take their eyes off the wheel and do secondary tasks, but still requires drivers to be prepared to take back control should the situation require their attention.

However, earlier in March, Mercedes-Benz boldly claimed responsibility for crashes that would come after a driver engages the car’s advanced driver assistance system. Once it’s turned on, the driver is no longer legally liable, but Mercedes-Benz is."

Can "take their eyes off the wheel".
Strange wording, the eyes are on the road, not the wheel.

More strange wording
"must be prepared to take back control."
"but is not responsible "

My head hurts from this...we're so screwed.

Or it's just the Polish vodka talking...and all this will work out just fine. Robotaxis FTW!

 

[emmz0r]

So any Germans been able to test this ?
been remarkably few user videos (not motor magazines accompanied with a safety driver )

Still crickets ...

 

[UncleCreepy]

So any Germans been able to test this ?
been remarkably few user videos (not motor magazines accompanied with a safety driver )

Get me one and I'll test it for you. Besten Dank

 

[emmz0r]

Get me one and I'll test it for you. Besten Dank

Haha, but are there 0 people in Germany who has used it , excluding motor magazines?