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Mobile charging for Australia

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Miimura

This is the one I had made and it is apparently OK having been lab tested by those who know but are not allowed to openly support non-OEM equipment.

J1772_Charger_to_Type2_Car.jpg


I will probably have tested it on my own car by end of September.

So you are right, the handle was not correct on the advertisement sent to me and mine is still unique. Please disregard my last post.
 

Johnwill

Member
May 25, 2014
74
1
Auckland, New Zealand
It seems the 32A J1772 to Type 2 cable I had made up in China as in previous posts has become a product at Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum.

I don't know the price, but if anybody wants to use it for Chargepoint stations, you should take the 32A option. Probably of greatest use in country Victoria and longer trips that go through Canberra.

Note further down the web page there are a number of certificates. Anyone looking at importing, reselling or using electrical equipment that will connect to the grid needs to make sure the manufacturer can supply a SDoC (Supplier Declaration of Conformity) that meets the appropriate AS/NZ electrical standard.

It might be better to wait for reputable companies to provide components rather than a DIY approach. I'm sure Tesla have SDoCs for their products.
 

Gabz

Member
Jul 28, 2014
232
3
Newcastle NSW
Miimura

This is the one I had made and it is apparently OK having been lab tested by those who know but are not allowed to openly support non-OEM equipment.

I will probably have tested it on my own car by end of September.

So you are right, the handle was not correct on the advertisement sent to me and mine is still unique. Please disregard my last post.

that looks like it would work i would recommend starting your testing at 10amps (use a EVSE for a volt. i-meiv or leaf) checking heat in the cable. then stepping up to using a 32amp chargepoint unit. have your signed up to chargepoint and gotten your rfid card ?
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,102
5,698
Los Altos, CA
Miimura

This is the one I had made and it is apparently OK having been lab tested by those who know but are not allowed to openly support non-OEM equipment.

View attachment 56684

I will probably have tested it on my own car by end of September.

So you are right, the handle was not correct on the advertisement sent to me and mine is still unique. Please disregard my last post.
Nice. Almost exactly what I expected. Is the strain relief on the back of the J1772 inlet done well? QuickChargePower makes a custom aluminum housing to protect the back of the inlet and provide strong strain relief.

JMS.jpg


This is their equivalent with the North American Tesla handle. Tesla provides a very compact adapter that provides the same function. This is an extension cable to use in case a J1772 station is ICE'd.

- - - Updated - - -

that looks like it would work i would recommend starting your testing at 10amps (use a EVSE for a volt. i-meiv or leaf) checking heat in the cable. then stepping up to using a 32amp chargepoint unit. have your signed up to chargepoint and gotten your rfid card ?
Based on the appearance, they have used standard components for the Type-2 handle and the Type-1 (J1772) vehicle inlet. These components have well known amperage ratings. So, as long as they have used minimum 32A rated parts, the only real danger is the crimping of the pins to the cable. So, the places you need to check for heat are on the handle and inlet themselves. Also, with the Model S, you can use a 32A station like the Chargepoint ones and adjust the charge current from the center screen. No need to use a portable EVSE to test 10A at all, just start your testing at that level on the screen.
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Thanks for all your comments, especially the heat-in-hand comments by Miimura and Danielp. Be sure, I will be with real experts when we try it out, but working up from a sub-16A current using the car-based control seems logical advice. The components were put together by a factory already manufacturing products at scale using similar components for what they sel in Europe and North America, and they were aware of my 32A requirement. It has passed (informal) lab testing. And yes, I will join Chargepoint before I receive the car. But nobody want to casually trash the best car on the planet - including me. Even if it goes well as expected, I take no responsibility for what might happen if anyone else buys and uses the product. Really, I need one, but this is something of a message for Tesla. Tesla could and should offer OEM adaptors for the many countries receiving Type 2 cars but having some useful legacy J1773 charger infrastructure. If I can get one made, they can.
 

JOH

Member
Jun 4, 2014
135
0
Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Thanks for all your comments, especially the heat-in-hand comments by Miimura and Danielp. Be sure, I will be with real experts when we try it out, but working up from a sub-16A current using the car-based control seems logical advice. The components were put together by a factory already manufacturing products at scale using similar components for what they sel in Europe and North America, and they were aware of my 32A requirement. It has passed (informal) lab testing. And yes, I will join Chargepoint before I receive the car. But nobody want to casually trash the best car on the planet - including me. Even if it goes well as expected, I take no responsibility for what might happen if anyone else buys and uses the product. Really, I need one, but this is something of a message for Tesla. Tesla could and should offer OEM adaptors for the many countries receiving Type 2 cars but having some useful legacy J1773 charger infrastructure. If I can get one made, they can.


Or perhaps Timpoo would consider doing through his Tesla accessory shop if Tesla won't? I would think general buyers - as opposed to trail blazers - would want to know there is someone with some form of product liability insurance behind the product.
 

timpoo

Member
Mar 30, 2014
844
50
Melbourne, Australia
Or perhaps Timpoo would consider doing through his Tesla accessory shop if Tesla won't? I would think general buyers - as opposed to trail blazers - would want to know there is someone with some form of product liability insurance behind the product.

Oh let me take the hit why don't you! haha :)

I've thought about stocking something like this, but given that Tesla already supplies adapters for most other markets, it's only a matter of time before they come out with something for Australia. When that happens, there's no doubt that any stock I have will be sitting in my warehouse, as most people would prefer an OEM product. I have every confidence that David's product works, but I want to wait a bit before seeing if it's something that should be carried through EVnomics.
 

MarcusKorn

Member
Aug 26, 2014
7
0
Kornmehl
? Mennekes in Australia

View attachment 56784

This is their equivalent with the North American Tesla handle. Tesla provides a very compact adapter that provides the same function. This is an extension cable to use in case a J1772 station is ICE'd.

This may have been mentioned in on of the posts before, but i have 3 questions, expanded on below;

1. Reason for Mennekes?
2. Reason for inability to plug into any socket at all?
3. Could we lobby Chargepoint?

-----
1. Firstly does anyone know why exactly has Tesla chosen to use the bulkier Mennekes plug in Australia?

Mennekes is common in Europe, but not so in Australia.
I have been told it is compatible with 3-phase - which is rare in the US, but common in Europe and Australia (I presume availability of 3-phase here is the main reason for the decision - although, so far this forum suggests you cannot rock up at a caravan park and just plug into a 3phase socket - as there is no adaptor?!?!).

Can the slim-line US tesla connector pictured by miimura handle being connected to Australian 3-phase or are there not enough pins? It certainly looks better, but of course if Mennekes is somehow a Panacea of compatibility then it's obviously the best choice.

2. Is there some reason that the car's charger/computer cannot detect the power rating of whatever wall socket it is plugged into (10, 15, 32, 40amps) and draw an appropriate currant without tripping circuit breakers - thus allowing straight-forward plugging in at any wall outlet.

3. How 'bout we just lobby Chargepoint to pop 2 female charge standard sockets on each station they have (one J1772 and one Mennekes) - simpler than every Tesla, BMW and future Leaf (considering Tesla standard) buying an J1772 adaptor.

Im hopeful all of this makes sense and is sorted prior to deliveries.
 

Gabz

Member
Jul 28, 2014
232
3
Newcastle NSW
1 Mennekes is a dam better improvement on the USA non standard special plug only for tesla. type 2 allows for 3 phase meaning that when you charge at 22kw you are load balancing across 3 phases (32amps each) rather than 80amps on a single phase. given australias power network type 2 mennekes was the right choice for australia.

2. yes that's exactly what the EVSE is meant to do. (also provides a RCD and over current protection if the onboard computer failes)

3. chargepoint is an american company, which only has J1772, in australia is a sub company of vision stream (nbn co contractor). your better off asking companies which already have a chargepoint to invest in a type 2 socket connection to support all cars. sites which have existing chargepoints have purchased them they arn't on lease they belong to the site owner.

the truth is there arn't that many type 1 J1772 EVSE in Australia that we should stick with them chargepoint only have a 190. so moving forward we install only type 2 socket EVSE which support all cars up to 22kW.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,102
5,698
Los Altos, CA
This may have been mentioned in on of the posts before, but i have 3 questions, expanded on below;

1. Reason for Mennekes?
2. Reason for inability to plug into any socket at all?
3. Could we lobby Chargepoint?

-----
1. Firstly does anyone know why exactly has Tesla chosen to use the bulkier Mennekes plug in Australia?

Mennekes is common in Europe, but not so in Australia.
I have been told it is compatible with 3-phase - which is rare in the US, but common in Europe and Australia (I presume availability of 3-phase here is the main reason for the decision - although, so far this forum suggests you cannot rock up at a caravan park and just plug into a 3phase socket - as there is no adaptor?!?!).

Can the slim-line US tesla connector pictured by miimura handle being connected to Australian 3-phase or are there not enough pins? It certainly looks better, but of course if Mennekes is somehow a Panacea of compatibility then it's obviously the best choice.
I think you have it right, the Mennekes compatible vehicle inlet was chosen by Tesla because of the existence of 3-phase residential power in Australia. The Tesla proprietary handle pictured can only handle single phase AC and SuperCharger DC power. There are not enough pins for 3-phase.

2. Is there some reason that the car's charger/computer cannot detect the power rating of whatever wall socket it is plugged into (10, 15, 32, 40amps) and draw an appropriate currant without tripping circuit breakers - thus allowing straight-forward plugging in at any wall outlet.
In order to have a safe system, the charging station must tell the car what the allowable current is for the circuit it is using. In the initial Model S markets (USA, EU), Tesla provides a mobile charging system called the Mobile Connector. These units have a selection of different plug adapters that are electrically coded with unique resistors that tell the MC what kind of circuit it is connected to. In the States, we use NEMA connectors and each one is mechanically different so that you must have the proper socket to plug in your high power device. However, these adapters have been problematic because Tesla used relatively small pins and some of them have overheated and melted, leading to a relatively high percentage of Mobile Connectors being replaced for free and a recall on all the 40A adapters.

3. How 'bout we just lobby Chargepoint to pop 2 female charge standard sockets on each station they have (one J1772 and one Mennekes) - simpler than every Tesla, BMW and future Leaf (considering Tesla standard) buying an J1772 adaptor.

Im hopeful all of this makes sense and is sorted prior to deliveries.
As was mentioned earlier, the charging stations that are already present in Australia are likely privately owned and not owned by the network operator. The network operator provides data communication, authentication, reporting, and fee collection services. IMHO, the best way forward for Australia is to follow the European way and install Mennekes type charging stations that do not have a captive cable. EV owners bring their own cable, appropriate for their vehicle inlet and charging capacity. The only other sensible way is continue with J1772 stations with captive cables for public use and force vehicles like the Model S or others with Mennekes inlets to use a unique adapter that is not needed in any other global market. If this scenario plays out, Tesla should make a J1772 adapter for the AUS cars or at least give their blessing to use one from a third party.
 

Johnwill

Member
May 25, 2014
74
1
Auckland, New Zealand
Mennekes is common in Europe, but not so in Australia.
I have been told it is compatible with 3-phase - which is rare in the US, but common in Europe and Australia (I presume availability of 3-phase here is the main reason for the decision - although, so far this forum suggests you cannot rock up at a caravan park and just plug into a 3phase socket - as there is no adaptor?!?!).

Can the slim-line US tesla connector pictured by miimura handle being connected to Australian 3-phase or are there not enough pins? It certainly looks better, but of course if Mennekes is somehow a Panacea of compatibility then it's obviously the best choice.

Yes, not enough pins. The US Tesla car plug has 5 pins of which only 2 are used for conducting the main charge. You could connect one of the Australian 3 phases plus a Neutral to charge at 230V but that would mean the whole 22kW of load would be on a single phase. This would require a 95A supply on that single phase to support the full 22kW charging load.

In the US they use 2 phases connected on the 2 pins to get 230V or 1 phase + N to get 110V. In UK, Aus and NZ we would get 230V from 1 phase + N. If we connected 2 phases in the same way as the US the resulting 400V potential would let a lot of smoke escape.

The Mennekes plug has 7 pins of which 4 can be used for conducting the main charge. You can connect all of the Australian 3 phases plus a Neutral to balance the 22kW of load across all three phase.
This would require a 32A supply on all three phases to support the full 22kW charging load.

As Miimura posted; all UMCs and EVSEs have intelligence to tell the car what it's connected to. How else would it know if it's AC to be routed to the onboard charger(s) or DC to go straight to the batteries? Hence you can't rock up to a caravan park plug without the proper UMC. The car also needs to know the limit it can draw from the supply or a full 22kW charge will last only until the breaker trips if the supply is a 10A or 15A caravan park socket.

There is more to it than just having the right lead and plug configuration. I've read of some UK owners turning up to charge stations with what appears to be the right lead and not being able to connect because the car and EVSE won't communicate.
 
Last edited:

MarcusKorn

Member
Aug 26, 2014
7
0
Kornmehl
Sneaky German frankenplug

Spoke to Tesla a few days ago: there is no J1772 adapter in development, so you'll have to get DavidRM's cable if you want to use J1772 charging stations.

That's a shame, but in the long term may serve us well as more and more community chargers will be built with Mennekes in mind.

Of course the next logical step is for one of us to get a job at a local BMW dealer and do some undercover ordering and distribution of i3/8 J1772-Mennekes converters. No one will ever suspect.

Are all 3-phase plugs 32A? Or can you have 3phase at 16amps?
 

Dborn

Confirmed
Aug 26, 2011
2,715
357
Sydney, Australia
My wall connector is on a 3 phase supply and set to 16 amps. Just a few dip,switch settings to achieve this. Think of it as 3 separate 240 volt supplies, but in one cable. So minimum 4 wires - 3 active and 1 neutral.
 

TesAus

Member
Mar 4, 2014
870
121
Sydney, Australia
My wall connector is on a 3 phase supply and set to 16 amps. Just a few dip,switch settings to achieve this. Think of it as 3 separate 240 volt supplies, but in one cable. So minimum 4 wires - 3 active and 1 neutral.

I thought the wall connectors were only single phase at this stage with three phase coming out next year (and free upgrade to those with dual chargers?). Do you mean that you have run a three phase circuit, but only one phase is currently used?
 

Dborn

Confirmed
Aug 26, 2011
2,715
357
Sydney, Australia
I thought the wall connectors were only single phase at this stage with three phase coming out next year (and free upgrade to those with dual chargers?). Do you mean that you have run a three phase circuit, but only one phase is currently used?
Yes. The other two phases are capped off inside the unit but my isolator switch is 3 phase. Change over to the 3 phase unit when it comes out will be a simple switchout and connect up. I won't even need to strip wires!
 

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